Msa's Blue Ribbon Panel Update

[Gavin]

Lets go fish some Neosho's Coldwater.......I'll bring the skillet.

[ColdWaterFshr]

Must be extra tasty if Chief doesn't want them to become a C & R only species. I agree, lets go verify this. I'll bring the butter, lemon-pepper seasoning and foil. Shoal Creek, Little Sugar, Big Sugar, Elk, Spring . . . here we come!

[Wayne SW/MO]

Gavin, I love this statement from people who know nothing about this part of the Ozarks. You all seem to think that because things work on the Meramec, Current, Gasconade, etc. that they will work here. They won't. Neosho smallmouth seldom broach 15" in length. If they do, that is a trophy fish. So, a 15" MLL over here is darn near C&R. We have stated this in many places on this forum, yet, it has been written off as nonsense because smallmouth in other parts of the state (separate genetics), grow larger. Whatever we propose, will have to be done through the SWMO MSA, as the experts in the eastern Ozarks are really nonexperts on this area of the Ozarks.

I can't follow you, you seem to be all over the place. First off I would think you would welcome a 15" minimum if it would end up being C & R for the Neosho fish? Chief apparently doesn't agree with you that the resource is endangered, and given the fact he lives there and you don't I'll take his word for it. A for experts in this area, I've fished both, not sure if you have, and I find little difference between the areas. In fact the variations in flow and water quality makes a bigger difference in both areas. Eventually you will learn that stream size tends to limit the numbers of bigger fish and I'm sure that accounts for smaller Neosh fish. The Glover and the Mountain Fork used to provide some good size fish, and I believe they were Neosho's, I've fished both. One last thing, the Neosho is a smallmouth, and according to the the latest DNA info, just a color variant.

[drew03cmc]

Wayne, a 15" MLL does nothing, as the few fish over 15" are very old fish. 18" or straight C&R would be better. That will NEVER happen as the MDC does not see anything of worth on this side of the state as is evidenced by the lack of SMAs. A little attention from the MDC, NWF, etc would be nice. These fish exist in such a small portion of the country and deserve the extra consideration we are wanting for them.

Gavin, you seem to think I accused you of needing to be an expert. I did not. I did, however, mean these regs are based upon a portion of smallmouth water of the state, not the state as a whole. They are going to be blanket regs, which again, are bad things for those of us who do not fish the Gasconade, Meramec, Big, Black, etc. Statewide regulations are great for species like catfish, walleye, bluegill, etc. which are the same from one side to the other, but smallmouth bass are not the same from one side to the other. MDC only recognizes one species, which there is, but there is a separate subspecies, classified as such, due to different genetics. The experts of the eastern Ozarks, know very little about these fish and proposed regulations based upon what they feel will help their own homewaters. Sorry if this all rubbed you the wrong way, but I am just trying to make it a point that blanket regulations, whether they are C&R or 15" are not a good thing at this point. Oh, and, Chief and I are on the same page, just with different approaches.

Coldwater, you seem to think that everyone should view these new proposed regulations as gospel, but they are not ideal for many fish and anglers in this state. There is a whole other subspecies of concern in this state that requires additional attention.

[Gavin]

Andy, bought the only common theme that I see in your posts is your own vanity. I'll ask you again..What have you done for the resource? Have you invested any skin in the game?

My father always told me that perfection is the enemy of the good, and he was right. If your waiting for someone else to provide you with perfect solutions, your never going to be happy. Ask yourself if the recommendations put forth by MSA are better than what we have now. If the answer is "Yes"...I'd suggest you lead, follow, or get out of the way. Cheers.

[fishgypsy]

Every time anyone who knows about the Neoshos and their needs/concerns, we get bashed by those who know absolutely nothing about them. I wish the MDC would spend some time in this part of the Ozarks and not write the entire region off as a mediocre smallmouth fishery. They come up with excuses to not put an SMA on Shoal Creek, rather than to do it and see if it helps. I would imagine they surveyed this area the same way they did the tribs of LOZ.

Andy-

Where is all this bashing going on?

Posted by WAYNE/SWMO:

"Neosho is unique in its variation, but I don't see any different attitude from any other stream bred smallie. What do you think the MDC should do to help them, given the fact the gene pool is probably tainted?

"

Posted by NESS:

"Andy -- you got me interested in these Neosho smallmouth, so I did a little reading. Interesting stuff -- kinda sounds like the cutthroat/rainbow situation. Anyhoo -- don't want to get this wonderfully productive thread off topic, but could you tell me (and the world) where a Kansan might fish for some of these in his home state?

Posted by SIUSALUKI:

"I agree that there should be a lot more emphasis placed on restoring neosho populations in the area. Maybe the SWMOc hapter can get some MO state students to start doing some research on the remnant populations and determine the best methods/regulations to restore those populations."

Posted by FISHGYPSY:

"The Neosho smallmouth IS unique, it IS important to educate the public about them, and it IS important to conserve those genetics"

Posted by GARY LANGE:

"I think we need to band together and make a very large group with a big voice for Smallmouth Bass and all its Subspecies."

I see interest. I see curiosity. I see a willingness to promote and conserve the Neosho genetics. I see founding members of the SWMO Smallmouth Alliance Chapter saying they'd like to do more, and that they would like to work with others to conserve the neosho strain. What I don't see is bashing of efforts to conserve the strain. Where are you seeing it? Are you just attacking a straw man?

[ness]

15 is better than 12 and halfway to 18. 1 is one-third of 3 and really close to zero.

Somebody wanna check my math? Seems like this is a good thing, but I might be missing something.

[Gavin]

And 3 is half of 6...I think your math is good enuff.

[Gary Lange]

All of this just because some Smallmouth Fisherman want to get Chapter of the Missouri Smallmouth Alliance going in the Southwestern Part of the state. Getting it started and getting some intell as to what is needed could go along way into gaining a voice with the MDC. If you want to join fine if not that is fine also I want as many as I can get the more the better. We are going to have fun fishing area streams and cleaning up access points and looking into all this talk about the Neosho Smallmouth.

[drew03cmc]

Gary, we have spoken and you know where I stand.