More Smallie Action In River

[Donn]

Clark,

These fish are caught in Eastern Missouri streams. All of our streams have good smallie populations. Yes, I'm being coy about specifics mainly becasue I don't want to see crowds on my favorite stretches. I don't mind sharing techniques and fish habits if it helps some guys become better anglers.

Zipstick,

I am very interested in hearing your techniques and what habitat you target. I'm new to fishing rivers and have pretty much only fished for large mouth bass in MO lakes and ponds. I recently acquired a boat for duck hunting and have tried fishing from it about 6 or 7 times in the last two months and really haven't had much luck. The 6 or 7 trips I took were all on the lower Meramac from the Allenton access down to George Winter and a couple of miles past and I was mostly using LMB lures (plastic worms, swim baits, crank baits, spinners)with no luck.

I am looking for any tips, pointers, or suggestions that you would be willing to provide to help me land some decent fish on the lower Meramac. With the boat I have (1860 modified V with a 90 hp Prop motor) I am limited to the deeper and bigger portion of the Meremac from Palisades / Allenton and downstream.

Thanks in advance for anything you or if anyone else has to provide.

Sincerely,

John

[drew03cmc]

Zipstick, while I believe that fishing the spawn for prolific species like crappie and bluegill is a productive and worthwhile fishing endeavor, I cannot help but be a little peeved that you are targeting smallmouth on the beds on streams that are undoubtedly being "overrun" with spotted bass. If you are doing this, I do not want to hear you complain about the lack of smallmouth in future years. Even removing a bass from the bed for five minutes gives a bluegill or other egg thief an opportunity to go in and eat the free caviar.

I fish for crappie and gills in the spawn and keep my fair share, but honestly, smallmouth on the beds should be left alone.

[zipstick]

Zipstick, while I believe that fishing the spawn for prolific species like crappie and bluegill is a productive and worthwhile fishing endeavor, I cannot help but be a little peeved that you are targeting smallmouth on the beds on streams that are undoubtedly being "overrun" with spotted bass. If you are doing this, I do not want to hear you complain about the lack of smallmouth in future years. Even removing a bass from the bed for five minutes gives a bluegill or other egg thief an opportunity to go in and eat the free caviar.

I fish for crappie and gills in the spawn and keep my fair share, but honestly, smallmouth on the beds should be left alone.

Never kept a river smallie in twenty five years or more. I can catch the same bass twice in 30 minutes at times that may be bedding (one rarely sees a bed) so I know I haven't hurt them one iota. Please patrol the river next week and lecture all those guys killing limits of bass when it's legal too.

The reason there's good smallie pops in streams now is primarily due to guys like me who put them back all year round. Get off your high horse.

[drew03cmc]

You might be a "guru", but the act of targeting bedding smallmouth in streams is pretty bad. Why not fish for the bass that are not bedding or is it just easier to catch the bedding fish?

You may not have hurt the fish themselves, but bream will go right in behind that fish you just removed from the bed and devour eggs. That hasn't hurt that fish, but rather the young of the year.

I am not on a high horse, but rather am thinking of preserving the smallmouth bass in all of our streams.

[Mitch f]

Everybody has their own version of what should and shouldn't be done to keep the bass population growing. Some say don't fish during the spawn, some say use barbless hooks, some say don't use live bait because it will deep hook a fish. There have been many studies showing that fishing during the spawn on bedding fish does nothing negative to the fish population. Check out this one. http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_171904.asp

As long as you properly release the spawning bass I don't see a problem with it. The bigger problem is illegal gigging of bass, and the lack of a better statewide creel limit. The creel limit issue is being worked on right now by the SMA Blue ribbon panel.

[Al Agnew]

I don't think there is a single answer to the fishing for bedding smallies question. Yes, taking a smallmouth off a bed WILL result in some of the eggs or newly hatched fry being eaten by nest stealers, especially sunfish and minnows. And the stress of playing that fish might make it less able to defend the bed after it's returned.

On the other hand, I think too many people make the mistake of worrying too much about individual fish or individual beds, and not enough about the overall health of the population. In any kind of decent spawning season, far more than enough fingerlings are produced to keep the population healthy. Losing a certain percentage of eggs, fry, or even whole beds probably isn't going to make much if any difference.

On the other other hand, there probably are circumstances where bed fishing does make a difference. And while the studies so far have shown that it doesn't, most if not all of them were on reservoirs, not streams. On a situation like some of the larger Ozark streams where a lot of bedding takes place in a limited area, it seems to me that too much harassment of those fish might not be a good thing.

Knowing and having fished with Nick, I know he is very conscientious about handling the fish he catches gently and carefully. And not all that many anglers have his knowledge and expertise, so not many have the potential to have any kind of impact on bedding bass. What I'm afraid of is a lot more anglers learning too much about how and especially where to target obviously bedding fish. Like most things, when a few people are doing it the impact is negligible, but when a lot of people are doing it suddenly it becomes a problem. I don't think it's anywhere close to a problem yet in the streams Nick and I fish, but I won't say it'll never be a problem.

[zipstick]

You might be a "guru", but the act of targeting bedding smallmouth in streams is pretty bad. Why not fish for the bass that are not bedding or is it just easier to catch the bedding fish?

You may not have hurt the fish themselves, but bream will go right in behind that fish you just removed from the bed and devour eggs. That hasn't hurt that fish, but rather the young of the year.

I am not on a high horse, but rather am thinking of preserving the smallmouth bass in all of our streams.

Andy, I don't think you have both oars in the water. Getting a little to PETA for me.

One can catch bedding bass in a smallie stream by fishing likely looking spots without actually see the fish bedding. I usually don't know if they are bedding until they smack a lure. When I catch several from a very small area, I think they are in their "bedroom." I may have to work several miles of water to find such a place. When I do it's very rewarding to catch these big bass. I release them right away as the law requires, and this does not harm the fishery in the least. Ain't no bram gonna get anywhere near these mean bass. If I put you in my boat and I happened on an old log jam and caught two lunkers 20 in. smallies off it, I bet you'd cast in there too bedding or not. (Not that intend on inviting you)

[Ham]

Zippy, I was actually surprized that no one brought the bedding stream smalmouth issue up earlier in this thread. Go to River Smallies and start this same thread (cut and paste if you want), and you'll get a lot more negative comments than positive ones. So, I guess there are quite a few high horses over there.

I don't have an informed enough opinion to feel real strongly on one side or the other.

The studies I have read on fishing during the spawn that say it isn't harmful are mostly LMB studies done on southern mega lakes. I am mostly not on streams during the spawn because I am having too much fun on lakes AND it is a little harder for me to catch water levels where I like them on streams/creeks during the spring.

If I am going to fish smallies streams and not catch any fish somewhere in the lengthy spawning process, I'd better wait until July to fish.

I don't EVER keep ANY smallmouth from any lake or river, but that's just my overly tender hearted choice. I don't purposely target spawning smallmouth in creeks, but again that's just my choice. I am quite certain that I have unknowningly caught spawning smallies from creeks/rivers before. I don't beat myself up over it.

Pollution, gravel mining, wanton catch and keep in willful ignorance of the fishing regulations all pose a bigger threat to our river smallies than catching and releasing spawners.

PLEASE keep the details on the down low. I'd rather you didn't educate the catch and keep crowd on how to target the biggest smallies in any given river system while they are on the beds though.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Andy, I don't think you have both oars in the water. Getting a little to PETA for me.

When I catch several from a very small area, I think they are in their "bedroom." I may have to work several miles of water to find such a place. When I do it's very rewarding to catch these big bass.

I have to say with that it sounds as if you are specifically targeting them once you find them. If that is true and you are catching every nesting bass you can find, you may not have both oars getting wet. But maybe I read it wrong. I hope so.

[drew03cmc]

Andy, I don't think you have both oars in the water. Getting a little to PETA for me.

One can catch bedding bass in a smallie stream by fishing likely looking spots without actually see the fish bedding. I usually don't know if they are bedding until they smack a lure. When I catch several from a very small area, I think they are in their "bedroom." I may have to work several miles of water to find such a place. When I do it's very rewarding to catch these big bass. I release them right away as the law requires, and this does not harm the fishery in the least. Ain't no bram gonna get anywhere near these mean bass. If I put you in my boat and I happened on an old log jam and caught two lunkers 20 in. smallies off it, I bet you'd cast in there too bedding or not. (Not that intend on inviting you)

If by PETA you mean, People Eating Tasty Animals, okay, I will accept that. It does not matter how many miles of water you have to work to find bedding bass. I figured that any conservation-minded angler had it in their minds to avoid targeting bedding bass in streams that have a finite amount of these amazing creatures. I guess if you have the "expertise" that you supposedly have, that makes it ok? No. Fishing for bedding bass is easily avoided unless you are intentionally targeting these fish. I am not judging, but if this is the case, you should not be advertising how rewarding it is to rip a 16+" bass from their beds.

I hope you consider what I am saying without getting defensive as you did before. I hope you can see that you are potentially doing irreversible harm to the smallmouth population.

Bream are notorious egg thieves, and a minute off a bed allows the bream more time than they need to swim in and eat a couple hundred eggs.

No, I would not cast someplace where bass are bedding. I prefer to conserve that natural resource rather than exploit it. You don't have to worry about inviting me. Even if you did, I would decline as I would rather not fish with someone that feels this way about a natural resource that is becoming more and more rare in the state of Missouri.