More Smallie Action In River

[Chief Grey Bear]

Al, I can and do appreciate the loyalty you have to your friend.

Myself, when floating a creek or river in the spring, I won't target areas that may be possible nesting grounds. Since not all bass in the creeks spawn at the same time, meaning it may be spread over month or two, you will still have good fishing days catching those in pre or post spawn. I just don't see any reason to specifically target nesting bass to have a good time. I am more that positive that you fish the same way in the spring.

Is it possible to catch a nesting bass occasionally? Sure it will happen. And nobody has a problem with that. It is a causualty of fishing during the spring. Nesting bass have enough to contend with, without us directly fishing for them. We both know that there are continual nest robbers that they have to deal with 24/7.

A female can lay from 2000 to 15,000 eggs. It will take 1 - 2 weeks to hatch depending on a number of factors. If they can make it that far. Of those that do hatch, a very high percentage will not even make it to fingerlings. And of those that are lucky enough, even fewer still, will make it to adulthood. In fact I think that for streams the number is far less than 1%. Nature has built in balace. She didn't plan on the human equation. She couldn't have.

I am just of the belief, and I think you are too, that we should do all we can to offer them as much protection as we can and still float and fish.

[drew03cmc]

My post says" "Briefly, our results were not specific to reservoirs or rivers, they were obtained from reviewing tagging studies and creel survey data nationwide (included lakes, reservoirs, and rivers). It doesn't exclude or include any state or river. And I don't understand how a statewide change from 12" to 15" and reducing the creel form 6 to 3 doesn't help everybody in the state, not just the eastern smallie streams.

Your post also says, "I emailed Michael Allen who was part of the group form Florida that performed a study on whether fishing during the spawn has impacted the fish population." If the study was performed in Florida, it was done on largemouth and in the panhandle, potentially spots. Those fish are not Ozark smallmouth.

On the highlighted portion of your post, I will state this: The smallmouth in the western Ozarks, west of the James and flowing south and west, are not genetically the same as those in the five primary drainages in the Missouri Ozarks. I will spare everyone with Neosho smallmouth talk, but the growth rates are not the same as the fish in the rest of the Ozarks.

I agree that this thread is a bit of a train wreck, but what else do you expect to happen to a thread about targeting spawning bass on a forum with a lot of conservation minded fisherman?

It's an ethical issue, so I don't think there is anything wrong with people discussing that.

OTF, we agree on something...

[eric1978]

On the highlighted portion of your post, I will state this: The smallmouth in the western Ozarks, west of the James and flowing south and west, are not genetically the same as those in the five primary drainages in the Missouri Ozarks. I will spare everyone with Neosho smallmouth talk, but the growth rates are not the same as the fish in the rest of the Ozarks.

Yeah, we know...raising the MLL won't do any good because you want total C&R for smallies, which you say will never happen, and you still aren't making any sense.

Someone: Hey Drew, you want this 50 dollar bill?

Drew: Can I have 100 instead?

Someone: Sorry, can't give you 100.

Drew: Then I don't want the 50 either.

[drew03cmc]

Yeah, we know...raising the MLL won't do any good because you want total C&R for smallies, which you say will never happen, and you still aren't making any sense.

Someone: Hey Drew, you want this 50 dollar bill?

Drew: Can I have 100 instead?

Someone: Sorry, can't give you 100.

Drew: Then give it to Eric for reading lessons so he can follow threads.

Funny, Eric, but I thought you could read just fine...

Anywho, this discussion was about fishing on the beds...the study mentioned was presumably done in Florida done on largemouth in lakes more than likely, and thus, has no bearing on Ozark smallmouth.

[jdmidwest]

I think Herons also eat rattlesnakes .... and they both taste like chicken .

There was a big rattlesnake on the Whitewater last year during spawning season, maybe we should start gigging rattlesnakes.

[eric1978]

Funny, Eric, but I thought you could read just fine...

I can. It's the comprehending incoherence I'm having trouble with.

Sorry to keep revisiting an old argument that has nothing to do with the thread, but just for trainwreck's sake I have to keep this going...I'm bored with it, too, but I can't let it go. I'm really trying to understand. Take the following comments:

Statewide regs based upon five drainages in the eastern half of the state benefit those five drainages. C&R for smallmouth is what I would like to see, but it will never happen.

I will spare everyone with Neosho smallmouth talk, but the growth rates are not the same as the fish in the rest of the Ozarks.

Neosho smallmouth seldom broach 15" in length. If they do, that is a trophy fish. So, a 15" MLL over here is darn near C&R.

You put them together and you get --

Okay, you advocate pure smallmouth C&R regulations for your SW MO streams, where you say that "growth rates are not the same as the fish in the rest of the Ozarks," which obviously means slower. So you could then deduce, based on your growth rate estimates, that there are fewer fish over 15" in your areas compared to others in the state.

Yet you have a problem with a statewide increase in MLL to 15", which would logically have a greater benefit for the smaller, slower growing fish of SW MO than it would the rest of the Ozarks. I'm sorry, but I just can't figure out this rationale, and until it's clarified, I'll have to keep asking.

Anywho, this discussion was about fishing on the beds...the study mentioned was presumably done in Florida done on largemouth in lakes more than likely, and thus, has no bearing on Ozark smallmouth.

The study mentioned was done on spawning bass, and thus, has bearing on spawning bass. LM and SM spawn in similar, if not identical ways...some in lakes, some in rivers. The study is applicable, though certainly not conclusive or the final word on anything.

[Clark]

Clark,

These fish are caught in Eastern Missouri streams. All of our streams have good smallie populations. Yes, I'm being coy about specifics mainly becasue I don't want to see crowds on my favorite stretches. I don't mind sharing techniques and fish habits if it helps some guys become better anglers.

I'm still curious about how good smallmouth bass populations in southwest mo in ozark area as as from joplin to springfield and head down to branson area but i will just curious, well right now i'm in wisconsin and know a best smallmouth bass fishing up here and everytime u go out on shore, in boat or wading or anythings u'll usually catch 5 to 10 or more smallies in any of size plus jackpot up to 6 pounder but i'm trying to learn about ozark area smallmouth bass fishing after i have read all of topic and sound like people are trying to destory the bedding or anythings and i wouldnt like to hear about, but in wisconsin have 2 season for smallmouth bass fishing... may 1 to june 20 is catch'N' release but after june 20 to march 6 there is open for anyone to keep smallmouth but i never keep anythings i always practice catch and release spawning smallie genlty if fhappen catch ..

when i move down there to springfield this august and i'll start study and and has chance to go out for fall season smallies hunting

if anyone who trying to ruin smallmouth bass bedding or a polluation out there then i'll just move on and find new place where it countless and almost never have people fishing in this place and will able to make a better smalmouth bass in future,

yesterday went to wisconsin river in boat and was fishing for smallmouth bass and has catch alot bass after bass after bass with few of big smalle and 1 gaint with 20.75" all have catch on finesse tube on tx rig and tube with jig in shallow rock shoreline,

i would be pleasure to give soemthings goods postive about smallmouth bass grow on polluation in future for MO area so everyone will have fun hard fighting smallmouth ...

[drew03cmc]

I can. It's the comprehending incoherence I'm having trouble with.

Sorry to keep revisiting an old argument that has nothing to do with the thread, but just for trainwreck's sake I have to keep this going...I'm bored with it, too, but I can't let it go. I'm really trying to understand. Take the following comments:

You put them together and you get --

Okay, you advocate pure smallmouth C&R regulations for your SW MO streams, where you say that "growth rates are not the same as the fish in the rest of the Ozarks," which obviously means slower. So you could then deduce, based on your growth rate estimates, that there are fewer fish over 15" in your areas compared to others in the state.

Yet you have a problem with a statewide increase in MLL to 15", which would logically have a greater benefit for the smaller, slower growing fish of SW MO than it would the rest of the Ozarks. I'm sorry, but I just can't figure out this rationale, and until it's clarified, I'll have to keep asking.

The study mentioned was done on spawning bass, and thus, has bearing on spawning bass. LM and SM spawn in similar, if not identical ways...some in lakes, some in rivers. The study is applicable, though certainly not conclusive or the final word on anything.

I give up Eric. We agree in principle to the same things, and hopefully we can discuss further.

[eric1978]

I give up Eric.

Me too. I was just bored and a little troll slipped out.

[fishinwrench]

Me too. I was just bored and a little troll slipped out.

Back to your bridge Evil Troll, you have no powers here.