Illegal Fishing On Crane Creek

[jdmidwest]

Ollie, the way I have understood the law is that you only have to purchase a trout stamp if you: 1)Keep trout, or 2). Fish above 64(?) Highway on Lake Taneycomo.

Eric,my problem is that I don't keep fish. I do buy my trout stamp, but I just don't see the reasoning why and it is not because of the 7 dollars either. I know that there is more that goes into sustaining a trout stream than restocking, but look, I would have to bet (with a total lack of knowledge other than common sense) the majority of all of the trout stamp revenue is used to fund hatcheries. Not knocking the program, but I would think that alot of the work on these streams comes from stream teams such as the one that Ollie created for Hickory.

Just my views. Looks like I am going to have to keep purchasing the tag as I like to fish Taney.

Hatcheries stock trout streams so you will have trout to fish for. Trout in Missouri in most of the streams are stockers, very few are stream bred trout with a few exceptions in a few locations. If MDC does not toss them in, you will not catch them. That requires hatcheries to raise them and staff to move them from the hatchery to the stream. Even if you toss them back, they die eventually and need to be replenished with new ones from the hatchery.

Just buy a tag, it is pretty cheap. Arkansas has done the same thing for a long time now on most of its trout streams.

[ness]

Confrontational?

Here Eric -- for your convenience I've clipped your comments.

I find it hard to believe you've never been responsible for a trout's death. And even if you don't think you have, you have, and you should pay for the stamp...all $7 of it. What happens when you hook a big fish on light tippet and have to play it so long you can't revive it? Just let 'm float down the river I guess. Very cool of you.

Yeah -- I'd say that's confrontational. All he said was he doesn't eat trout so he doesn't buy a stamp.

I was just pointing out why I believe his refusal to buy a stamp is short sighted and frankly a bit selfish. I doubt my opinion will keep him awake tonight, but I'm sure he appreciates you mediating the thread. I'll go ahead and assume you agree with me, too, since you made no comment on the issue at hand.

Now he's short-sighted and selfish in addition?

Come on man, there are better ways to get your point across. Sometimes less is more.

For the record, I don't buy the stamp either. I can afford it, but I don't keep trout. It's just that by the time I've coughed up the dough for an out-of-state license I'm not really in a giving mood.

[eric1978]

It's just that by the time I've coughed up the dough for an out-of-state license I'm not really in a giving mood.

I suppose I can understand that, given the cost of an out-of-state license. Of course the majority of your tax revenue goes to KS as well, so you're not contributing that way either. The definition of selfish is "concerned chiefly or only with yourself and your advantage to the exclusion of others," and I'd say using a resource without helping pay for it qualifies. As JD said, even if you don't keep the trout, they die eventually. Someone has to put new ones in, and someone has to pay for it. Might as well be the people who want them in there.

I'm not as mild mannered as you, ness. I was raised to say what I mean and and not mince words, and if that seems confrontational to you, my apologies.

[ness]

I work in MO and pay taxes there, for whatever that's worth.

It's a personal choice to buy the stamp.

[Flysmallie]

It's a personal choice to buy the stamp.

Same as with catch & release. It's your decision and you should have the right to choose no matter what anyone tells you. I buy a trout stamp so I can fish the catch and release seasons in the trout parks. If I didn't need it there or for my few trips to Taney I would probably not buy one.

Opinions are just that, an opinion. As long as no one is doing anything illegal, we shouldn't act like a bunch of assholes just because we don't agree. And Eric, please don't take this personal. My comments stem from a lot of posts that have been showing up lately. Why can't we just tell someone that we disagree with their position and politely move on.

[troutfiend1985]

The definition of selfish is "concerned chiefly or only with yourself and your advantage to the exclusion of others," and I'd say using a resource without helping pay for it qualifies. As JD said, even if you don't keep the trout, they die eventually. Someone has to put new ones in, and someone has to pay for it. Might as well be the people who want them in there.

I'm not as mild mannered as you, ness. I was raised to say what I mean and and not mince words, and if that seems confrontational to you, my apologies.

Yes Eric, trout do die. I suppose that comes with fishing. However, I have always seen the trout stamp as a way of contributing back to the MDC for the fish that you have harvested. If the trout stamp has more impact than this, make it mandatory to fish for trout. It would make a lot more sense.

Eric, how is Ness not paying for his resource in which he is using? Frankly, I fail to see how Ness is not contributing. Commerce is contributed every time an out of state resident comes down to a trout stream in MO, even if he only purchase a tank of gas.

.

[Sharps4590]

eric, got a burr under your saddle? Of course I've been responsible for the death of trout. How on earth do you think I know the wife and I don't care to eat them? Only big trout I ever caught was a 24 in. 'cutt on the Salt River in Wyoming and yes, it was on a light tippet and took a while to revive but it bolted away like a shot. If it isn't still alive it's because it was caught and eaten or died of old age. That was about 8 years ago. Your insinuations are devoid of knowledge about me or any facts.

You're entitled to your opinion, same as me....and yours is worth to me exactly what I paid for it, as mine is to you. You don't know me from Adam. You don't know how I fish, where I fish most often and certainly you don't know what kind and size of fish I catch. I've NEVER gut hooked any kind of fish with any fly and I honestly can't recall ever gill hooking one with a fly but I won't say never and if I have it was a bluegill. You have NO knowledge whatsoever of what I do to aid Conservation with my dollars and in other ways. It's also none of your business what I do with my money. I'll reiterate, your opinion is meaningless to me, it is as dust in the wind. So....you stay on your soap box....I'm goin' fishin'.

Oh, and I don't buy #16 caddis.

Can't say as to Taney but where I fish you only need a trout stamp if you're going to keep trout and I don't keep any. That came from an Agent when directly questioned by me.

Vic

[eric1978]

Your insinuations are devoid of knowledge about me or any facts.

I think you do a lot of fishing on the Little Piney. I think you're probably a decent to good fisherman with a relatively low C&R mortality rate.

However, most studies I've found show a 4%-8% mortality rate even with flies, so you are killing more fish than you think you are. They can die days after they're caught, and can die from other reasons like stress, not just physical injury or exhaustion. The seven dollars for a trout stamp helps pay to restock the fish that die because of C&R mortality and catch and keep. Those are facts. There is a sustaining population of wild trout in LP, yes, but without the stocking efforts on top of the natural reproduction, there would be far fewer fish in your home stream. Maybe that's okay with you. Some people get a huge kick out of spending the day catching parr-marked babies with the occasional 12 inch trophy. No sarcasm intended, some guys really enjoy it, and maybe you're one of them.

You are of course within your legal right to not pay for the trout stamp; I never said otherwise. But just because something isn't illegal, it doesn't necessarily make it justified or ethically correct. It's a judgment call, and it doesn't mean you're a terrible person, just someone who likes to get something for nothing, and I personally find that a bit selfish. Of course, and it's already been noted, I am actually the asshole for pointing it out. I still don't see how it's such a giant faux pas to advocate my position. I'm not trying be nasty or confrontational or holier-than-thou. I'm just baffled at how people will spend untold thousands on gear and tackle and fly-tying materials, yet they refuse to pay a tiny fee that directly helps justify those thousands spent by improving the overall quality of the fishing experience. What would be the point of any of it if there weren't any fish? If everyone took your position, we'd all eventually be relegated to a few crowded trout parks and a few over-fished and dwindling wild populations. So go ahead, call me a prick or whatever you want, but deep down, you know I have a point.

[ness]

So, in all the hoopla, I've almost forgotten. What should we do when we find worm containers on Crane Creek?

1) Call the Game Thief hotline at 1-800-392-1111

2) Pick them up and put them in the trash

3) Flog Ozark Anglers ad nauseum with how you see things

4) 1 & 2

[Outside Bend]

I think you guys are overlooking the real issue here: if there was a live videostream of Crane Creek online, would you still be seeing those worm boxes?