Kayaks?

[Ham]

But if you just like paddling a kayak, don't mind the limitations on gear, fish more flatwater than moving water, you will prefer the kayak. That's fine. But in my canoe I can do everything you can in a kayak, and do some of it better and only one thing, fishing windy lakes, worse.

I disagree.

The wind blows on creeks and rivers too so the kayak wind advantage is not lmited to lakes.

Rods and gear are completely bomb proof when stored inside a yak and are subject to being lost or broken when a person dumps their canoe.

I can carry much more than I need for a days fishing and could do solo over nighters from a yak w/o too much trouble. I am not gear limited because of a yak.

I think that kayaks are MUCH easier to start, stop, and manuver than canoes.

I think kayaks are much easier to learn than canoes.

I think SOT Kayaks are much easier to deal with when you run out of water and have to drag it over and along.

I think SOT kayaks are easier to get on and off of than a canoe is to get in and out of.

I never have to bail/sponge my yak water will build up in a canoe and have to be bailed or drained out.

For most people, kayaks go back upstream far easier than canoes do.

Solo yaks are less expensive than the solo canoes I priced.

Both boat designs certainly enable us to fish easier.

Both boat designs have passionate fans. I don't offer the blanket statement that yaks are better than canoes, but to say that canoes do everything a yak can do and do most of it better is an opinion that's hard to defend.

As others have said, your best bet is to try as many options as you can and go with what you like best.

Foe me, that's a Tarpon 120.

[ness]

I disagree.

The wind blows on creeks and rivers too so the kayak wind advantage is not lmited to lakes.

Rods and gear are completely bomb proof when stored inside a yak and are subject to being lost or broken when a person dumps their canoe.

I can carry much more than I need for a days fishing and could do solo over nighters from a yak w/o too much trouble. I am not gear limited because of a yak.

I think that kayaks are MUCH easier to start, stop, and manuver than canoes.

I think kayaks are much easier to learn than canoes.

I think SOT Kayaks are much easier to deal with when you run out of water and have to drag it over and along.

I think SOT kayaks are easier to get on and off of than a canoe is to get in and out of.

I never have to bail/sponge my yak water will build up in a canoe and have to be bailed or drained out.

For most people, kayaks go back upstream far easier than canoes do.

Solo yaks are less expensive than the solo canoes I priced.

Both boat designs certainly enable us to fish easier.

Both boat designs have passionate fans. I don't offer the blanket statement that yaks are better than canoes, but to say that canoes do everything a yak can do and do most of it better is an opinion that's hard to defend.

As others have said, your best bet is to try as many options as you can and go with what you like best.

Foe me, that's a Tarpon 120.

Man, I can't see several of your points with a Tarpon 120:

-Where's the bomb-proof storage? Inside somewhere? If so, how do you access it?

-I've never had enough water in a canoe to be an issue. Well, maybe after a dump.

-I can't see how a kayak would be easier to drag through shallow water. At least with a canoe your bow is higher and there's a handle right there, though I generally use a rope.

-The older I get, the harder it is to get in and out of stuff. The height of a canoe seat is a plus -- sitting low on the water would be a negative for me.

-It's hard for me to see packing that for an over-nighter.

Folks keep mentioning try before you buy, but I don't think the shops here in KC are gonna lend me anything for the weekend so I can run it down to the Ozarks for a test drive. Does somebody know something I don't?

I've never fished from a kayak, so I don't really have experience working for me. My choice of a canoe was based, in large part, on being able to take kids along.

[RSBreth]

Yeah, I don't see how it would be easier to move around when portaging, unless your talking about those cute little wheels that click on. Good for level ground.

What does the Tarp 120 weigh, more than 60-pounds? I don't see how that would be easier to lift and move around than the 33-pound Pack.

[Al Agnew]

I disagree.

The wind blows on creeks and rivers too so the kayak wind advantage is not lmited to lakes.

Rods and gear are completely bomb proof when stored inside a yak and are subject to being lost or broken when a person dumps their canoe.

I can carry much more than I need for a days fishing and could do solo over nighters from a yak w/o too much trouble. I am not gear limited because of a yak.

I think that kayaks are MUCH easier to start, stop, and manuver than canoes.

I think kayaks are much easier to learn than canoes.

I think SOT Kayaks are much easier to deal with when you run out of water and have to drag it over and along.

I think SOT kayaks are easier to get on and off of than a canoe is to get in and out of.

I never have to bail/sponge my yak water will build up in a canoe and have to be bailed or drained out.

For most people, kayaks go back upstream far easier than canoes do.

Solo yaks are less expensive than the solo canoes I priced.

Both boat designs certainly enable us to fish easier.

Both boat designs have passionate fans. I don't offer the blanket statement that yaks are better than canoes, but to say that canoes do everything a yak can do and do most of it better is an opinion that's hard to defend.

As others have said, your best bet is to try as many options as you can and go with what you like best.

Foe me, that's a Tarpon 120.

Ham...how much time have you spent in a SOLO canoe? Seems like every time I get into a discussion like this, the kayak people turn out to be basing their opinions on their experiences in tandem canoes, usually tandem aluminum rental canoes. While I believe Ham has some experience in BETTER tandem canoes, using any tandem canoe as a basis for comparing canoes to solo kayaks is comparing apples to...anvils.

Yep, the wind blows on rivers, too. But it doesn't build up big waves like even a moderate wind on lakes does. It takes a real gale on an Ozark river to make fishing difficult.

Agree that your gear is a little more vulnerable in the canoe than it is stashed away in the kayak...it's a price you pay for having your gear much more accessible. I'm talking mainly about rods...if you're worried about your other stuff, tie it in and make sure it's in waterproof containers. I've lost a couple of rods over the many years of canoe fishing, but I've never lost a tackle container or any camping gear, or anything else valuable. Well, I lost a cell phone a few years back...but wait, that was when I was in my jetboat...

You could do solo overnighters without "too much trouble". I can three day trips with NO trouble, and I'm not limited at all on the gear I can take. You might be able to take all the fishing gear YOU need, but the fact remains that one can carry much MORE fishing gear, easily accessible, in the canoe.

As for SOTs being much easier to start, stop, and maneuver than canoes...again, have you tried a solo canoe before saying that...especially a solo canoe that's comparable in hull size and shape to your kayak. The Pack is the same length as the Tarpon 120, and I bet you'd find it just as easy to maneuver.

Yep, I too think yaks are much easier to learn the basics of paddling than canoes. This is mainly a function of the fact that canoes are normally paddled with a single blade. It takes some knowledge and practice to be able to propel a watercraft with a single blade so that it moves efficiently and stays straight...with a double blade, you can easily do that in a kayak...but you can do it just as easily in a canoe as well. There is no law against using a double blade in a canoe. And...once you get to advanced level paddling, using draw, pry, brace, and other specialty strokes, many find them easier to do with a single blade in the canoe.

I'm not sure about whether SOTs are easier to use when you have to get out in shallow water. It depends upon the situation. I find SOTs to be pretty tricky if you're getting out on a sloping bank and bottom where you have one side almost on dry land and the other side in a foot or two of water. Anytime you can get off it by sticking a foot out on both sides and standing up, if the water is the right depth it's very easy. But I don't have any trouble getting out of the canoe in any situation except if the water is more than knee deep. And I do a LOT of canoeing bony creeks where I have to get out a lot. And I cannot fathom how the yak can be any easier to handle when you have to get out and drag it. That makes no sense.

I agree that water will build up in the canoe and may eventually have to be drained, IF you are getting in and out of the canoe in the water a lot. That's the only way, other than rain, that water gets in. It's why I have taken the time and effort to figure out a system to keep my fishing tackle off the floor of the canoe.

Same argument applies to paddling upstream. Give me a canoe with the same general hull shape and a double bladed paddle and I'll go upstream as easily as the guy in the kayak.

I agree that many solo kayaks are less expensive than solo canoes. I think this is a matter of the materials used. Royalex is pretty expensive stuff. But in some ways you get what you pay for, and you pay for Royalex because it is lighter than the plastics used in most kayaks.

[bigredbirdfan]

I want a pack or discovery 119 where can I get one? Dicks Sporting Goods has them online at $399 but then you add shipping $120. They don't carry them in store b/c an independent operator does their internet sales and it is an online specical.

[Al Agnew]

BRBF, there you have maybe the biggest problem with solo canoes...with the popularity of kayaks, they are readily available in a lot of places, but solo canoes are harder to find. I don't know who carries them in your neck of the woods. The last time I was in the Dicks in St. Louis they had a 119, but that was several months ago. The 119 is well worth the $400, but I agree that paying an extra $120 for shipping makes it a lot less of a bargain. Any Old Town dealer should be able to get you in a Pack, but because they are made of Royalex they are more expensive, around $850 I believe...haven't priced one lately. But the Disco 119 (not the Dicks version) retails for about $550. Any Old Town dealer should be able to order it in as well, but the Dicks version is the better bargain.

[Wayne SW/MO]

Man, I can't see several of your points with a Tarpon 120:

-Where's the bomb-proof storage? Inside somewhere? If so, how do you access it?

You can put several rods in the front storage opening, they run under the covkpit

-I've never had enough water in a canoe to be an issue. Well, maybe after a dump.

-I can't see how a kayak would be easier to drag through shallow water. At least with a canoe your bow is higher and there's a handle right there, though I generally use a rope.

Whom, I own both and obviously paddle both and I really can't see the difference.

-The older I get, the harder it is to get in and out of stuff. The height of a canoe seat is a plus -- sitting low on the water would be a negative for me.

More often than not i find the SOT as easy, if not easier to get out of. My feet are always wet when I fish the flows, so exiting a Sot in water deep enough to simply stand up isn't a problem.

-It's hard for me to see packing that for an over-nighter.

That is always going to be an iffy thing because it will depend on the individual. I know I can pack enough on my 120 to be comfortable overnight, but after decades of experience I know that weight and bulk don't count for much. The biggest drawback is in the cooler, and how much you need for your requirements

Folks keep mentioning try before you buy, but I don't think the shops here in KC are gonna lend me anything for the weekend so I can run it down to the Ozarks for a test drive. Does somebody know something I don't?

I've never fished from a kayak, so I don't really have experience working for me. My choice of a canoe was based, in large part, on being able to take kids along.

Never fix what isn't broken

[Wayne SW/MO]

Yeah, I read that too

I didn't go by that, I contacted people I knew had them or had had them. I decided to hold off for a Vagabond because of what I was told. Before I had the money for a Vagabond I ran across a cherry Mohawk Solo 13 for $300, and I haven't looked back. I still have my yaks and I think they have their place. As I stated before I feel more comfortable in the Tarpon when the water is cold than I do in the solo. I know it will stay upright and keep me from a swim in cold water.

[Gavin]

Almost bought a Tarpon 120 when a used Vagabond popped up...A big fellow had it and he was just too big for it...

.I take my Vagabond out for day trips in the winter, but it wont haul enough for and extended winter trip...just not enough room......Both the Pack and the V. Bond are relatively low capacity, flat water boats...I've owned both...and like the Vagabond allot better...but its not the perfect boat....For one the bow and sides are too low to run anything resembling white water...Run a 2' ledge or a long standing wave stretch, and your gonna get some water in the boat. Same with the OT Pack...

Thinking of upgrading to a bigger solo, or replacing my tandem...Seem to end up soloing my 17' tandem most of the time anyway.

[Ham]

The front hatch comes off plenty quickly enough for me. The newer boats have an even better front hatch system than mine. I generally have three rods (spinning and bait casting) out and at the ready, but my flyrods get stored inside the boat when the boat is moving. For my flyrods especially, I'll trade immediate access for 100% safety.

I have a rope tied to the front handle and a looop in the rope for my hand. Stand up and take off. The hull slides along very easily. The canoes I have used always hang up more on rocks, etc. with the wider sides and flatter bottoms of a canoe.

My gear is pretty much always secure in a yak or in the tandem canoe, but as always the more secure the gear is the slower the access to said gear.

I have spent exactly ZERO time in a solo canoe. Solo canoes are not readily available to rent and when I choose a canoe it will ALWAYS be when I am sharing the boat with someone else. I am not at all afraid to use a kayak in cold water.

If the water is too cold to wet wade, then I'll put on some version of waders.

I'm quite certain that I can pack way more stuff in/on my boat that I could in a backpack AND I'm pretty darn certain that I could do a three day trip out of my back pack. Odds are that if I'm doing an overnighter, it will be with someone else because I enjoy the company and then I'll be in a tandem canoe.

When I say I'm not limited in fishing gear I mean it. I take 3-5 fishing rods, a tackle bag with 4 or 5 3600 size boxes, a couple of tupperware tubs for jigheads and spinnerbaits, and various bags of soft plastics. Most days I could have all I NEED in a shirt pocket, but don't get the idea that I'm just getting by based on lack of storage.

The listed weight for my Tarpon 120 in 64 pounds. Yep, thats almost twice as much as a 33 pound solo canoe. I don't have a scupper pup or any other version of a cart for my yaks. . Most of the time I'm not carrying my boat so far that it is an issue.

So Al, How much time have you sspent fishing out of a Tarpon 120?