Lead Ban On All Fishing Tackle

[Chief Grey Bear]

Why do you seem to have a personal vendetta with me ness? You always single me out.

He used to stalk me. He'll tire soon and move to someone else.

In the mean time, make no apologies for your opinion. Unless of course they are in direct contrast to mine. And in that situation you shall submit quickly. Ok, maybe not.

I backed out of this one somewhat early on. It was clearly evident that common sense and a small amount of research would get you no where. You can not teach those that refuse to learn. Boy, that should become a famous quote someday. Like carved in stone above some government building.

[Wayne SW/MO]

There's still nothing but if's and maybe's thrown out about whether or not lost fishing tackle containing lead is harming the environment to any appreciable degree. I don't see how anyone can assume that a lost sinker will be mistaken for a piece of food, it's nearly as hard as a rock. If whomever thinks there are significant numbers of split shot lost in duck marshes, then the can ban lead split shot.

There is a lot of evidence that prescription drug residue is altering the sexual genetics of fish, yet no one seems to be campaigning to improve sewage plants. We're told that if we don't spend billions in attempting to alter the earth's atmosphere we're doomed. All based on information from a handful of scientist from a fairly new university needing to establish some credibility.

I want to see something I can believe, some facts that point out that our waters and the fauna in them are in harms way. The waterfowl connection doesn't work for me, the paint chip and children link doesn't work for me, and the opinions of some one who doesn't use lead in fishing doesn't cut it either. If something swallows one of my jigs, it has more problems than lead to worry about.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Well wayne, I am not sure how old you are but, please feel free to reinstall lead pipes in your house and drink from a lead beaker. We will then take a yearly blood test from you and compare the results over time.

Also feel free to swallow a 1/16 lead sinker with your vitamins every day. See if that has any effect on you. Surely you're not scared to are you?

[Wayne SW/MO]

Well wayne, I am not sure how old you are but, please feel free to reinstall lead pipes in your house and drink from a lead beaker.

I'm 71 Chief, what do you want to bet I've drank from lead pipes? I'm not saying lead isn't harmful, I know it is. My problem is that there doesn't seem to be any serious link between lead fishing tackle and extraordinary losses. While Loons may be an exception, it would seem to me that the problem should be addressed more locally. I don't see that any viable link has been established between fishing tackle lead and a problem in the whole of the US. I have a problem buying into a "fact" that states "an estimated 10 or 20 million", if they don't know any closer than that I smell a wild guess. Like you, I was born and raised in the Show Me State, and I don't see that I've been shown.

[Outside Bend]

There's still nothing but if's and maybe's thrown out about whether or not lost fishing tackle containing lead is harming the environment to any appreciable degree.

Appreciable is subjective.

I don't see how anyone can assume that a lost sinker will be mistaken for a piece of food, it's nearly as hard as a rock.

Birds ingest rocks as grit. Fish frequently ingest non-food items- sticks, plastic, coins, gum, PowerBait, and yes, even stones. Personally I don't see how a fish mistakes a chartreuse spinnerbait for food, but that doesn't matter. They do.

There is a lot of evidence that prescription drug residue is altering the sexual genetics of fish, yet no one seems to be campaigning to improve sewage plants.

Again- if you'd bother looking it up, you would see that people are concerned about pharmaceuticals in the water, and people are working to improve sewage treatment plants. More importantly, the two issues aren't mutually exclusive- you can be worried about pharmaceuticals and be worried about lead. Personally I'm worried about water pollution- be it pharmaceuticals, PCBs, organic waste from CAFO's, or heavy metals-including lead. I don't draw the line at some arbitrary point.

I want to see something I can believe, some facts that point out that our waters and the fauna in them are in harms way. The waterfowl connection doesn't work for me, the paint chip and children link doesn't work for me, and the opinions of some one who doesn't use lead in fishing doesn't cut it either. If something swallows one of my jigs, it has more problems than lead to worry about.

If you want to simply ignore facts that's fine, but there's no point in continuing the discussion, then.

Go buy a goldfish and feed it lead. Let me know what happens.

[Outside Bend]

I'm not saying lead isn't harmful, I know it is. My problem is that there doesn't seem to be any serious link between lead fishing tackle and extraordinary losses. While Loons may be an exception, it would seem to me that the problem should be addressed more locally. I don't see that any viable link has been established between fishing tackle lead and a problem in the whole of the US.

Common loons, and brown pelicans, and double-crested cormorants, and yellow-crowned night herons, and Canada geese, and canvasback ducks, and great blue herons, and redhead ducks (read Ann's paper). My guess is, when you map out those ranges, it covers a pretty broad swath of the US. Not to mention many of those birds migrate, so banning lead tackle in New York will do no good if lead stays legal in Florida.

[fishinwrench]

Nice -- just what I expected: denial, finger pointing, name calling.

Everybody's got a right to an opinion, but there's places you shouldn't go. You take pride in saying what you think, but you could be a little more diplomatic and less controversial and make your point better. It's just tiresome seeing you flogging every topic, preaching the gospel according to Eric, getting yourself into a corner and then name calling your way out.

The forum could be better.

Personally I'd prefer to hear what's REALLY on someones mind...instead of having to decypher some county boy's attempt at a polite and sensitive version of it.

Eric gets hammered for speaking his mind on several issues, and I have too more times than I can remember.

Smalliebigs got hammered for saying what was on his mind after another senseless drowning took place in his back yard, because the bleeding heart crew felt his comments were insensitive. Since when are Hunters, fishermen and general outdoor type riverfolk expected to be sensitive and hold their tongues all the time, especially when in the company of people that supposedly share the same lifestyle ?

Now come on with your next attack and prove you've missed the point.

Allow Me....

STFU, Counselor Ness, I'd rather read an essay from Trav than to see another scolding post about literal christian behavior every time you run across a heated discussion.

[ness]

He used to stalk me. He'll tire soon and move to someone else.

You used to be a putz, but you've cleaned your act up Chief. Nicely done.

[ness]

Personally I'd prefer to hear what's REALLY on someones mind...instead of having to decypher some county boy's attempt at a polite and sensitive version of it.

Eric gets hammered for speaking his mind on several issues, and I have too more times than I can remember.

Smalliebigs got hammered for saying what was on his mind after another senseless drowning took place in his back yard, because the bleeding heart crew felt his comments were insensitive. Since when are Hunters, fishermen and general outdoor type riverfolk expected to be sensitive and hold their tongues all the time, especially when in the company of people that supposedly share the same lifestyle ?

Allow Me....

STFU, Counselor Ness, I'd rather read an essay from Trav than to see another scolding post about literal christian behavior every time you run across a heated discussion.

You're a putz, wrench. Since when do we do STFU? BTW, I remember Phil specifically asking that one not to be used.

You wanna express your opinion, that's fine. I just think you need to use a little sense. For you, that may be all you've got, so don't blow it all in one post. Literal Christian? What the heck are you talking about? I'm talking about common courtesy.

Smallie saw fit to make disparaging comments about two people that drowned. Eric saw fit to call into question the Bible, he inserts his political views into everything, was out calling Trav names and now has resorted to PMs to try to beat his point home. He's a blow hard. I'm not saying he's wrong, it's just clear you don't need to go certain places and he continually blurts that stuff out. Who needs this crap?

You guys go ahead and do your thing. Apparently the sport you're most interested in is stirring the pot here and trying to make yourself look bright. Have a ball.

[fishinwrench]

You guys go ahead and do your thing. Apparently it's a sport to you guys to try to stir the pot and make yourself look bright. Have a ball.

Thanks Counselor, I knew you'd give us permission if we asked correctly.