Divers Take Note

[Fly_Guy]

This I suppose is the reason there is debate - if one side was 100% right, it would be so apparent to everyone that no one would argue. Gator raises a good point - and an unavoidable one. If a sudden massive national/global response were to take place against gw/c/w (global warming/cooling/warming), we would by necessity loose many of our freedoms we enjoy (the freedom to purchase which cars we like, to build our houses how we want, to travel as we like, to buy the products that we want, ect...) We could go into a debate over whether that is a good or bad thing. When you have traveled throughout Europe as I have, you see that our American way of life is pure luxury, and it does tend to make one feel like a greedy consumer.

However, the kind of individual freedom America has since seeded throughout the world has enabled many social advances that otherwise may not have happened. Would there still exist slavery if America hadn't been the first to eliminate it? Would other countries be having equal rights movements (think S. Africa)? Perhaps eventually, but the notion of freedom from complete government rule/authority from the U.S. has been a strong empetus. (sp?)

So where is the answer? Well, an enlightened population and a free market is all that is needed. (as has been suggested already)

[flytyer57]

If a sudden massive national/global response were to take place against gw/c/w (global warming/cooling/warming), we would by necessity loose many of our freedoms we enjoy (the freedom to purchase which cars we like, to build our houses how we want, to travel as we like, to buy the products that we want, ect...)

Why would you think you couldn't purchase the car you like? I'm sure Ford, Chevy, Chrysler, Toyota etc. will sell all kinds of cars. They will more than likely be more friendly to the environment than the cars of today or yesterday, but I seriously doubt the notion that the big bad govenment will all force us to drive the same kind of car.

Why wouldn't you be able to build the house the way you want? If you wish to live in a cardboard box, I seriously doubt the big bad government will force you to live in an ultra modern mansion.

I also seriously doubt there will be any sort of limits to travel by the big bad government. At least not as many limits as the Patriot Act put on us.

As long as manufacturers keep making the crap they produce, I don't forsee the big bad government stopping you from spending your hard earned money on that crap. Unless of course it had been deemed to be dangerous. And I see no problem with governmental consumer protection from those manufacturers that don't give a dung our safety as long as they can get rich.

[Fly_Guy]

but that's the point. What if I want to buy a car with an engine that doesn't pass emissions standards? What if I want to build a house that doesn't fit into government compliance for energy effeciency? What if I want to buy products that weren't produced according to the governments sustainability requirements? What if when I want to travel, I have to wait for a time when a bus will be filled to ensure maximum effeciency in mass transit? Not saying these are going to happen (except the first two already do). Gator's point is perfectly legitimate, although I do not share his level of fear.

I know someone who was recruited by the FBI after the Patriot Act passed. He has told me things that scared me badly, and said he wasn't cleared to tell me the really scary stuff. It did a lot of good (in terms of keeping America safe), but it's good that it is done with.

[Gatorjet]

The biggest threat to our liberty in the last 224 years was the so called "Patriot Act."

But since Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck didn't raise hell over that, it's ok with you?

Where did I say that?

Over 200 years ago some very intelligent men set forth with an amazing experiment in liberty. For the past 100 years our politicians have been trying their best to screw it up.

[flytyer57]

Where did I say that?

Over 200 years ago some very intelligent men set forth with an amazing experiment in liberty. For the past 100 years our politicians have been trying their best to screw it up.

I stand by what I wrote regarding our liberties.

[jjtroutbum]

Where did I say that?

Over 200 years ago some very intelligent men set forth with an amazing experiment in liberty. For the past 100 years our politicians have been trying their best to screw it up.

You Sir, May I subscribe to your news letter?

[eric1978]

Over 200 years ago some very intelligent men set forth with an amazing experiment in liberty. For the past 100 years our politicians have been trying their best to screw it up.

Your "very intelligent men" must have missed a few things, since I believe there have been a few amendments to the Constitution they drafted. Or are you opposed to those changes as well?

Society evolves as it learns, and for the most part that's a good thing. It's a losing battle to fight scientific fact with ridiculous partisan rhetoric, and environmental progress will happen with or without you. But no doubt people like you are the reason all of us frogs just might end up boiled before we can jump out of the pot. Thanks a lot for keeping us in here and perpetuating the denial that there's no flame cooking our asses.

[FishinCricket]

You Sir, May I subscribe to your news letter?

That much of a knee slapper, eh?

[Smalliebigs]

I'm going to go run my boat wide open for all you guys next Tuesday...why?? because it's been sitting in my garage too long with out beeing used.

[FishinCricket]

I'm going to go run my boat wide open for all you guys next Tuesday...why?? because it's been sitting in my garage too long with out beeing used.

Just keep it on the big rivers, buddy...