Mountain Lion Caught On Game Cam In St.louis Co

[Outside Bend]

There are some that spout stuff that they do not know anything about. DDT never affected the Turkeys or Snow Geese. Lead shot killed off the snow geese and man killed off the turkeys because they taste good.

I dunno....

Turkeys and geese are birds.

DDT affected birds.

Turkeys eat insects.

DDT was used to control insects.

Turkeys eat insects.

Other birds that eat insects (Robins, quail, etc) were affected.

Snow geese eat grain.

DDT was applied to grain fields, even in spring, to protect against rodents and insects, when geese would've been flying back north and stopping to feed.

How can you say conclusively DDT never impacted either population?

[jdmidwest]

I dunno....

Turkeys and geese are birds.

DDT affected birds.

Turkeys eat insects.

DDT was used to control insects.

Turkeys eat insects.

Other birds that eat insects (Robins, quail, etc) were affected.

Snow geese eat grain.

DDT was applied to grain fields, even in spring, to protect against rodents and insects, when geese would've been flying back north and stopping to feed.

How can you say conclusively DDT never impacted either population?

Proof that it did would satisfy me.

The only ones DDT affected to the point that they had to ban it was the birds of prey and buzzard/condors. I have never seen any study that linked it to the waterfowl decline of the early 19th century or the decline of the wild turkey before MDC restocked them and brought the numbers back to where they are today. I am thinking those two were caused by overhunting and loss of habitat.

[smallmouthjoe]

I dunno....

Turkeys and geese are birds.

DDT affected birds.

Turkeys eat insects.

DDT was used to control insects.

Turkeys eat insects.

Other birds that eat insects (Robins, quail, etc) were affected.

Snow geese eat grain.

DDT was applied to grain fields, even in spring, to protect against rodents and insects, when geese would've been flying back north and stopping to feed.

How can you say conclusively DDT never impacted either population?

The reason why they were never impacted by DDT, BIO-ACCUMULATION. They fed too low on the food pyramid.

[Al Agnew]

Actually, I believe that a lot of birds were affected by DDT. In fact, Rachel Carson's book, "Silent Spring", documented a lot of mortality among various birds. Were other birds brought to the brink of extinction by DDT? Probably not, the birds of prey and carrion eaters were affected the most. But bioaccumulation works two ways...exposure over a long period of time, and exposure by eating critters lower in the food chain. Google "DDT and birds" and you'll get a lot of links to literature talking about the effects of DDT on songbirds and other birds. You'll also get some links that purport to debunk its affects. Read it all, both sides, and decide for yourself.

[NoLuck]

From what I remember reading is because the runoff that washed into streams and lakes affected the fish and the eagles ate the fish. Don't know for sure but it seems like I remember hearing that or reading that.

[flytyer57]

DDT was sprayed on farm fields. Both turkeys and geese would flock to the fields to eat. They were affected by what they ate.

[Outside Bend]

The reason why they were never impacted by DDT, BIO-ACCUMULATION. They fed too low on the food pyramid.

So you're suggesting that if I laced your salad with rat poison, you wouldn't be affected, because you're eating too low on the food chain and all. Right?

[NoLuck]

I don't think anyone here is saying that DDT isn't a toxin but they are trying to say that there are other circumstances that led to only certain birds being affected more than others. It's kinda like the catfish being more concentrated with mercury than the bass and bluegill. The runoff created higher levels of the toxins in the fish and the birds that ate the fish were at greater risk than the ones eating some seeds or grains in a field. I remeber reading about this stuff back in school but that was along time ago.

[Outside Bend]

I understand where you guys are coming from NoLuck, and I understand bioaccumulation is why a lot of the predator and bird of prey numbers dropped drastically.

All I'm saying is, if you're lacing animal food (grass, seed, insects, etc) with poison, it makes sense the animals eating the poisoned food would be...poisoned. Whether they're so poisoned they die immediately, or die after multiple exposures, or live but can no longer functionally reproduce, they've still been affected by DDT.

[jdmidwest]

How long ago was it that someone thought DDT was a great idea? Snow geese, wild turkeys, Bald eagles, all almost disappeared completely. Thankfully some econuts stepped up and educated the powers that be on the truth. Now look, we have seasons for turkey and snow geese. bald eagles are easy to find. We can learn and not everything we've done in the past, including policies and procedures have been well thought out.

The original statement was that DDT lead to the decline of the Snow Goose, Wild Turkey, and Bald Eagle and that eliminating DDT brought them all back, has no proof.

Snow Goose and Wild Turkey populations declined in the early 1900's due to habitat destruction and over hunting long before widespread use of the DDT. Deer and other waterfowl declined the same time for the same reasons.

Bald Eagles accumulated DDT which made the egg shells thin which kept them from reproducing to the point of near extinction. Eliminating DDT helped bring them back.