Sources Of Ethanol Free Gas

[jdmidwest]

Found the law in the books, there is an exemption for Premium Grade Fuel, but does not mean that the fuel is pure gas, just that it can be. The mid grade has always been enhanced with ethanol to get the mid grade octane rating. But Premium can be pure gas, along with aircraft fuel, bulk transfers, and marine fuel. Best thing to do is contact the main office of your local gas station and ask them.

MO CSR2110-3.010 Renewable Fuel Standard

[Stockton Lake Guide Service]

Thanks for the list, but still a little weary of some of these. if you go to the website toptiergas.com and read the requirements for making the list you will see that all grades of gas must contain at least 10% ethanol, and then they list conoco as a top tier gas. it can't be on both websites and be ethanol free, so I am just wondering if the owners are giving us the truth, or just trying to get our money.

If anyone knows for sure, would love to hear from them because ethanol isn't good for our outboards!!

[minnowhooker]

I'm no fan so I've done a little research. If a station sells non ethanol fuel it must have a sticker on the pump saying no ethanol, this is Missouri law. The only stations I know that sell it are the Signal stations in Springfield. The Conoco on Seminole and Glenstone and the station in Walnut Grove have signs saying so. I've only found it in premium. The Signal stores are 20 cents more per gallon versus regular, Walnut Grove is 30, Conoco don't know. I bring cans an fill them up so I have it when I need fuel. Little bit of a pain but I'm always in Springfield for something.

Hope this helps.

[jeb]

Some of the stations only offer one grade of fuel with no ethanol in it, usually Premium. So they could make both lists. The station in Prarire Creek, AR is like that, for example.

[Bill Cooper]

Fellow anglers and boaters: All the hype, outright lies, misconceptions, and fear about ethanol is driving me crazy. Let me clear up a few things for you in the mechanical world of ethanol. Ethanol does not create as much heat as pure gasoline; therefore, engines produce less horsepower when using it. Ethanol is more aggressive at deteriorating plastic and rubber parts. Ethanol will also attract moisture. Now, with that said, ethanol has been on the market since 1980, yes over 30 years. In that 30 years time, engine manufacturers have designed components and engines to operate on ethanol blended fuels. Your engines will not blow up because of 10% ethanol in the fuel! They will blow up if you do not maintain your engine and fuel system! We all need to settle down a bit about ethanol being the cause of every engine problem. Ethanol is here to stay. We need to deal with it and not run from it. I do not particularly like ethanol blended fuel, but it does not scare me out of my mind that I would drive 30 miles out of my way to fill up at a station that posts they have no ethanol in their fuel. I am going to make a statement that will probably not be very popular, but I have just about had all I can take of "shade tree mechanics" scaring everyone to death about ethanol. If a "boat repair guy" blames everything on ethanol, run away as fast as you can. If that "boat repair guy" cannot make your engine run on ethanol blended fuel, he should not be a "boat repair guy." I am not saying that ethanol has never created some problems. What I am saying is that those problems are curable, preventable, and nothing new. I have not received any new information from engine manufacturers about 10% ethanol since the 90's. I have received updates that repeat the same stuff we have been doing for nearly 30 years. This frenzy of blaming everything on ethanol reminds me of the days when oil injection was blamed for every powerhead failure. I have been repairing boats for 28 years and have only repaired 5 engines that died from oil injection failures without any warning. So let's not go there either, please.

[denjac]

Guess thats why all the manufactures are telling us to use fuel additives to combat problems related to the ethanol .

[Bill Cooper]

Dennis, please allow me to clarify your statement a little. The manufacturers you speak of are those manufacturing fuel additives. Evinrude only recommends two fuel additives for their engines: 2+4 fuel conditioner and carbon guard. 2+4 is to stabilize fuel from deteriorating over time(it prevents gum and varnish from old fuel). One could argue that ethanol blended fuel deteriorates faster than pure gasoline, but that is not the reason Evinrude recommends it. Carbon guard is to reduce carbon deposits inside engines. Again one could argue that ethanol leaves behind more carbon because it burns colder, but again that is not where this recommendation came from. Gasoline took a major transformation in 1985. Lead was completely removed. The lead in the gasoline was used by outboard manufacturers as a lubricant. 2 cycle engines do not have valves; therefore, lead is not needed to prevent valve seat erosion. When the lead disappeared, engine manufacturers had to compensate for the lack of extra lubrication by making engine tolerances higher or looser. These bigger tolerances allowed more area for carbon to invade and cause problems like ring jacking and ring sticking. Carbon guard was developed to help remove this excess carbon. Mercury follows the same recommendations of two additives: Gasoline Stabilizer comparable to 2+4 and Quickleen comparable to Carbon guard. I am not a Yamaha dealer, but I would venture to guess they have the same form of stabilizer and Ring-Free is their version of Carbon guard.

Be very careful with all the additives available on the market. I cannot knock any particular brand of additives. I sell and use Amsoil's. One disturbing problem I am experiencing quite frequently is the over-use of additives. I am not knocking the product, but Sea Foam seems to be the choice of additives that gets over-used the most. I have had customers tell me about how they keep adding can after can of Sea Foam to the same tank of fuel. By the time it makes it into my shop, the fuel hoses and primer bulb are literally melting off the engine.

Another concern I have in the over-use category. Everyone has heard of HEET. HEET is made of methanol alcohol. If anyone will whip out their engine owner's manual and read the fuel recommendations it will state that use of fuel with up to 10% ethanol OR 5% methanol with 5% cosolvents is acceptable. That is a big OR. If someone fills the tank up with 10% ethanol extended fuel and throws in a couple cans of HEET on top, well, is that acceptable fuel? In my opinion it is not. The recommendations say OR not AND.

I would love some feedback on this subject and I hope to clarify what is REALLY going on.

[denjac]

Bill, good stuff there and I do run a yamaha and they recommend this in the fuel as you mentioned : The Ring Free Plus protects against the corrosive affects of sulfur salts in E10 (10% ethanol-blended fuel) on electronics parts and fittings in the fuel system. It is highly recommended for all electronic fuel injected engines (EFI). The Fuel Stabilizer & Conditioner PLUS helps protect fuel system metals affected by E10, helps to prevent fuel oxidation that results in gums and varnishes and keeps fuel fresh and potent up to year of storage. Fuel Stabilizer & Conditioner PLUS is recommended to be used at every gas fill up, not just for storage. I have concerns that if the ethanol save the world concept doesnt get shut down that we will be using E15 and E85 in the near future. Thanks for your contribution on the subject, it helps to understand it a little bit better.

[Rolan Duffield]

I'm enclosing a report that was written to me by my son and was included in this site last year. He describes Ethanol very clearly. I still don't like it though thats what we are facing now and it probably will be with us for many years.

Posted 09 February 2010 - 07:42 PM

A couple of years ago I was having problems with my 115 Yamaha ideling roughly and hesitating when power was applied. I took it to Sports Boats. The electrical system and cylinders checked O.K. though they did find a lot of orange sediment in both carburetors. I had them clean the system and install a 10 micron water separiting filter on the gas line to prevent the residue from getting into the carbureters. So far this has prevented any recurrence of those problems though I'm always concerned with using Ethanol in my boat and the unknown effects it causes.It's not unusual for four to six months to lapse between use of the boat.

I have discussed this Ethanol issue with my son several times. (He is actively involved as a training specialist in automotive diagnostics.) I sent him the above report a couple of weeks ago and just received his reply. He adds some new information to the issue which was very interresting to me. Perhaps this opens up another can of worms though any input we receive may help prevent problems. It's a long report.

Dad,

Sorry for late reply regarding the ethanol content in the boat. I read the article that was posted on OzarkAnglers.com and I have a few comments on it.

For the most part, the statements about ethanol's attraction to moisture and corrosive nature are correct. It is a solvent, possibly dislodging dirt in the fuel system, causing problems. It can attack older rubber lines and seals, causing fuel leaks. Most of the statements about phase separation and water absorption are worst case problems, but would most likely not be an issue during normal operation of boats, unless stored for an excessively long period of time. Most seals, hoses and the plastics used in tanks for the last 20 years or more should be compatible with such a low percentage of ethanol. Best recommendation is to make sure that the fuel stays fresh. When you are done using the boat, try to store it with a low fuel level (not 7/8 full) or empty. Therefore, next time the boat is used the tank will be full of fresh fuel and there is no need to be concerned about these fuel moisture problems. The small amount of fuel that was still remaining in the tank will be diluted so much with the fresh fuel that it should not cause any problems. I still think that fuel stabilizers are a bad idea. If your fuel is fresh, why do you need to stabilize it? Plus, aftermarket fuel additives seem to cause varnish (typically a reddish color) in the fuel system, causing flow restictions and float problems. Stick with good quality fuel (Chevron, Quicktrip, Texaco), they have detergents in them to combat the inherently dirty burning characteristics of unleaded gasoline. Avoid the Costco and Sams Club, discount type fuels. They are cheaper for a reason. They do not have any of the detergents that prevent the formation of carbon build-up in the combustion chambers and fuel systems. These higher quality fuels with detergents will also prevent the build-up of varnish on fuel pumps and fuel level senders.

Statement #4 needs some correction. Ethanol does not burn faster, hotter, and make approximately 18% less power than gasoline. Ethanol burns slower and more completely over the length of the power stroke. Ethanol burns cooler than gasoline. It also burns much cleaner than gasoline, reducing emissions output. The statement that E10 fuel makes 18% less power is not accurate. Ethanol will make more power than gasoline because it has a higher octane rating, burns slower and more completely, and cooler. It has better anti-knock properties because of the higher octane. I can only guess that the statement was trying to say that E10 fuel is 18% less efficient (mpg) than gasoline. And yes, the energy content (BTU's) of ethanol (76,000 BTU's) is less than gasoline (116,000 BTU's), and the stichometric mixture is richer because of that. It takes about 1.5 gallons of 100% ethanol to equal the energy of one gallon of gasoline. So, the engine will need to burn a larger quantity of ethanol than straight gasoline to maintain the perfect burn rate. However, with 10% ethanol mixed into the unleaded, this should only effect economy 5-10%.

In a modern car there is an oxygen sensor that measure the content of oxygen in the exhaust gases to determine if the air/fuel ratio is correct. The less oxygen there is, the richer the mixture. The more oxygen there is, the leaner the mixture. So, if a modern car switches from straight unleaded gasoline to an E10 fuel, the oxygen sensor will pick on a leaner mixture (5-10%), and then the Engine Control Module (ECM) will increase the duty cycle (open time) of the fuel injectors to provide more fuel for the next cycle. So, we have increased the volume of fuel used, but maintained the air/fuel ratios at the proper mixture. This engine will run properly without damage, while meeting all emissions standards. Now, most boats use a carburetor. A carburetor uses a metered restriction (jet) to tune the air/fuel ratio. The size of this jet was probably determined using straight unleaded gasoline, without any ethanol. Since a carbureted engine does not use a oxygen sensor, the carburetor does not receive any feedback about the accuracy of the air/fuel mixture. Therefore, the typical boat engine will run lean when using an E10 fuel. This can be easily corrected by increasing the jet size in the carb to compensate for the difference in the fuel energy level. I am sure that there is a growing number of marine engines that use fuel injection. However, I would be surprised if they had an oxygen sensor. The ECM just would then use a base calculation of rpm and throttle position (maybe manifold pressure to measure load) to calculate the duty cycle of the fuel injector, but would never know how accurate the mixture was. Until the government tightens the emissions standards on the marine industry, the monitoring of air/fuel ratios will just add more cost to the engines.

One concern that is not discussed in the article is ethanol's corrosive nature to aluminum. Modern boat engines are made from aluminum, as are their carburetor's. In time, even the small percentage of ethanol in E10 could destroy a carburetor, eating it from the inside out. Special nickel coatings are used on aluminum parts in automotive fuel system that will come in contact with the ethanol, but I can not comment on what boat manufactures do to combat this issue. This should be main concern of E10 fuels in boats. There are not (fortunatly) any additives that can be added to reduce this characteristic. Ideally, one should close off the fuel line and run the engine out of gas before storing the boat. Or, drain the fuel from the bottom of the float bowls in the carb.

Ethanol is the way of the future. It's a renewable resource. It burns much cleaner, reducing emission output and the necessity of some emission control devices needed when burning gasoline. If an engine is built with a higher compression ratio to take advantage of the anti-knock properties, efficiency can get close to that of gasoline. In time, there will be more effective ways to produce ethanol as an energy source. It does not need to come from corn. Since the availability of crude oil is limited, we need to have another source of fuel for the future. Ethanol is more expensive to buy and use than unleaded, but it is better than depleting the oil reserves and polluting the environment even more.

Hope this helps.

[Bill Cooper]

Rolan,

Wonderful post! I would like to add a few things for the marine side of life.

#1: Many octane booster or lead substitute additives were causing sediments to form in marine carburetors. The additives would react with engine oil in the fuel to form “goo” like Vaseline often with a reddish color. This substance would cause sticking needle valves and plugged orifices. Often, filters would never catch it because it stayed in liquid form until it reached the carburetor and had time to settle out of the mix.

#2: Detergents. OMC recommended 89 or higher octane fuel for a long time because of the higher detergent properties offered in the premium fuels. This is no longer the case. The federal government mandated refineries to add the detergents to all fuels regardless of octane rating. Since that mandate occurred the recommendation has returned to 87 AKI fuel minimum.

#3: Octane rating. Ethanol raises the RON (Research Octane Number). It does nothing for the MIN (Motor Index Number). If anyone will read the little sticker on a gas pump some time it will have a formula of R+M/2=AKI. AKI (Anti-Knock Index) is the average of the two numbers; so, a fuel with 100 RON and 80 MIN yields 90 AKI. Likewise; a fuel with 95 RON and 85 MIN yields the same, but it is better fuel for a marine engine. RON is measured at idle speed, no load, and low temperature. MIN is measured at high speed, heavy load, and high temperatures. Lead was the greatest improver of MIN in the old days. Unfortunately, we are unable to learn what the RON or MIN is for the fuel we are purchasing. If anyone would like to spend the money to find out, the Dept. of Agriculture has a knock engine they use to test samples taken from stations to verify pump posted octane rating. My pumps are normally tested from 2 times per year to once every two years.

#4: O2 Sensors. Most marine engines do not have O2 sensors because the exhaust is cooled by water. Water will damage an O2 sensor and not allow it to reach a temperature to accurately read or sniff the exhaust. EFI & DFI engines use other sensors and computer mapping programs to compensate for different atmospheric conditions. Engines are tested and EPA approved at the factory using a special gasoline called Brown gas. It is some rather nasty low quality fuel, but is used as a baseline for all emission testing. If the engines will pass the test on this sludge, they will run beautifully on ethanol blended fuel.

#5: Corrosion. Most marine carburetors have a dichromate finish to assist in corrosion resistance. OMC & BRP also used many Mynlon (plastic) carburetors and float bowls for corrosion resistance and weight reduction. Never soak these types of carburetors in a harsh dip type cleaner. They will remove the dichromate or melt the Mynlon.

#6: Running out of fuel. Never, ever, ever run an engine with an electric fuel pump or oil injection pump out of fuel by closing off the fuel line or disconnecting it. Electric fuel pumps rely on the fuel passing through them to cool the pump. Within a few seconds to a few minutes of dry running an electric fuel pump will ruin it. Oil injection pumps, particularly OMC VRO or BRP OMS, will begin pumping excessive oil into the carburetors when fuel lines are disconnected or closed off. Draining the fuel system is acceptable if it is accessible, but always make sure the system is fully primed before any electric fuel pumps are turned on.

Summary: The greatest difference in marine and automotive fuel use is the frequency of use. Most vehicles on the road get a fresh batch of fuel in the tank weekly or every two weeks. Most boats do not see that amount of use and the fuel remains in the tank for months or even years. This is where the greatest problems come from the use of ethanol extended fuels or even the old standard gas we used to get in the 70’s and 80’s. Varnish, moisture, and degradation occur faster now, possible in as little as 15 days. This is why fuel stabilizers are so prominently recommended in recreational products and cars just don’t have the problems as much.