Trash

[Justin Spencer]

But I do think there needs to be some kind of agreement that they sign that says they will remove their trash.

Obviously it is illegal to litter on the river, and probably more tickets are written for that offense than any other on our river. As outfitters we are required to provide a trash bag for our floaters which helps the trash problem immensely. People are still going to flip over and lose trash, but that could easily happen to any of us by accident.

The only trash complaint I had this year was from a landowner who said a group of "fishermen" had camped on a gravel bar the night before and had left trash on the gravel bar after packing up the next morning in the rain.

As for standing up for the right thing, many an arse has been kicked because of standing up to a bunch of drunks (for the right thing). Al did the right thing turning the other cheek, most people like that are just looking for an excuse to kick some butt and don't hesitate to do so. The way to handle that is to alert the authorities to the situation and let them issue warnings or citations as warranted. Maybe by doing this the word would spread amongst the miscreants that this type of behavior will get you in trouble. I have one particular landowner that calls on occasion about floaters drinking and carrying on on "his" gravel bar and the first few times he wanted me to come make them move. I told him I could not do it, but water patrol might so call them. For some reason people want to call an outfitter, but don't want to get the authorities involved, go figure. When a complaint is called in I get a boat number from the complainer and then confront the floaters about their behavior to let them know it does not go unnoticed. Several times complaints have resulted in 75 year old couples being wrongly accused (I hope) of bad behavior on the river, so the complaints can't always be trusted either.

[Gavin]

Justin is exactly right....Rental boats usually have a number on the side...get their number and report them to the outfitter and law enforcement. You may get some satisfaction, you may not. Getting agressive with a bunch of drunks isnt a smart thing to do...Waving a pistol at em isnt either...You dont know if they are armed too. FWIW...a couple choruses of "You Got a Friend in Jesus" and some "Hallelujah Brother's" usually gets the point across w/o being confrontational.

[Smalliebigs]

I have my CNC permit and a Curio and Relics License and have been carrying a Desert Eagle 357 when I float ever since July 18th 2003. That day will live with me for a long time as my wife and I were floating the Black River from BRL lodge to the second smiley face when we came around a turn in the river we saw a skirmish between one guy and six other guys. As we approached we noticed a family of two children and a distraught wife freaking out as her husband was getting basicly a murdered by six guys. Beeing the dumbass I am I jumped out of our canoe with my paddle to aid the gentleman who looked unconscious on the sand bar while some friggin looser was still punchling him. When I came to his aid they proceeded to gang up on me and I ended up with a fractured orbital bone, concusion, broken Ulna and a fractured jaw. They almost killed the guy I was trying to help, he had to be air lifted to St.Johns in St. Louis, I was taken to a hospital in Farmington I wouldn't take my dog to. I later found out the gentleman who was almost killed was defending his daughter who these pieces of dung were harassing.

Since I have been carrying a chest holster with a 357 in it I can't tell you how many times a group of rude, wiggers has shut up completely when they notice my piece. I know it may seem a little over the top but, I will never allow a group of retards to have me held in the middle of nowhere with no one to help me, I will always have my security blanket after that day. Now all you anti gun freaks go ahead and blast me and I will laugh a loud to myself. Until you are in a situation where there is no one there to help and you are in dire need of help you will never know. By the way the Reynolds county prosecuter along with the Kangaroo court in Lesterville....which there is none did nothing to these hooligans. I will never brandish my weapon but, will not think twice to defend myself or others who are in fear for their lives on the river. Al, I agree with you, bite your tounge and move on it's the most prudent thing to do but, if you and your family were beeing assaulted on the river ahead of me you can bet that I would jump out and start blasting holes in some femoral artiries and defend you.

[ozark trout fisher]

There are quite a few stretches of river that are simply not safe anymore, at least for families.

Justin, are you honestly going to tell me that the sort of drunk low lives that we are talking about would really, as a general rule, have the initiative to bring their own canoe, and arrange their own shuttle? Of course they wouldn't! Of course the blame for the sort of situations that Al and Smalliebigs have described cannot at all be attributed to those involved in canoe rentals, but generally they are the folks putting those kind of people on the river. Most of them just wouldn't be there without the services canoe rentals provide. It's something that I think you should consider. I don't care so much about loud, drunk idiots I can deal with them, but what I do care about are the people that make the river simply not a safe place to be. It's why I make every effort to never be on a stretch of river serviced by a canoe rental during the aluminum hatch. I just hate the atmosphere and I think that canoe rentals need to acknowledge they are a big contributor to this. Everyone should be able to enjoy our streams. Without being harassed, without feeling unsafe. And that's not the case now. I don't have kids but if I did there are many, many stretches of river that I just couldn't take them in good conscience. And that's sad, isn't it?

I believe that there simply needs to be fairly stringent restrictions on the number of canoes that outfitters can put on our rivers, at least the ones that see the most traffic. This would be nothing new. Many states have instituted this system on their most popular streams. It will probably never happen here because of how much money is in the canoe rental industry, but it's what we need.

[Justin Spencer]

I won't apologize for what I do because I enjoy it and enjoy providing an affordable vacation for families and groups of friends that are out to have a good time. I am fully a contributor to the noise and congestion on the river on Saturdays on the NFoW. If I wasn't I probably would have been in an office today instead of in front of my house fishing.

Come to this river any day other than 15 saturdays in the summer and you more than likely will have a wonderful experience, if you go up on the 8:00 shuttle you can even get ahead of all the drunks and basically have the river to yourself all day even on a Saturday. Church groups and scout troops come year after year on the weekends to stay in our campground because we try our best to keep it family oriented and they know to go early to avoid the partiers on the river.

Since I have never seen the craziness of a weekend on the Niangua, Elk, Current, or Meremec I can't really speak for the party rivers, but do your research, go to the right river and a good time can be had even on Saturdays in the summer.

And yes, just look at the vehicles at our public accesses and tons of locals have their own canoes and shuttle themselves and some get drunk and disorderly and then drive home. At least we drive our patrons back to their campsite where they hopefully passout.

We are limited to 120 canoes which we can put in at Hammond and on our river all of our outfitters don't rent as many boats combined as just NRO on the Niangua does.

[Guest]

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[Outside Bend]

You don't need alcohol to be loud, belligerent, and obnoxious. Just look at our political leaders

A jetboat flying up or down river can be just as loud and irritating as a group of drunken rubes, a church group or cub scout pack can deposit litter just the same as a guy passed out in a tube. I took a college buddy from Hong Kong on a float trip a few years ago, and heard some awfully ignorant things coming from the mouth of a teenage girl in another canoe.

It's not about how you choose to enjoy the outdoors, it's about having enough respect for others and the resource you're using to act in a responsible and considerate manner.

[Chief Grey Bear]

I won't apologize for what I do because I enjoy it and enjoy providing an affordable vacation for families and groups of friends that are out to have a good time.

And you shouldn't. You run an entertainment business, not a daycare center. You have no control over the actions of your clients.

I would like to brainstorm with you though on a way to eliminate or greatly reduce the litter. Maybe we could develope something that could be adopted state wide?????? PM if you like and we'll get started. I already have some thoughts to start with.

[Midwest troutbum]

Let's face it, most of us on this site are not the one's who need the lecture on litter on the waterways. It's a select few, no matter what their background, age, ethnicity, hometown, education, etc, that need a friendly reminder from time to time that the rivers are a privilege and a vital, fragile resource, not just a given right. Just hope future generations, and future visitors to the rivers become more aware of and more respectful of their natural resources in this state.

[Al Agnew]

I agree that there are a lot of "local" drunken idiots in jetboats as well. It saddens me to see the way the most popular rivers are treated, and how so many of the people on them act. On the Huzzah, Courtois, and sections of the Meramec, it's no longer even a weekend thing. These rivers are crowded with obnoxious people even during the week if the weather is nice. Justin, be thankful that your river is far enough away from the big population centers that it takes a serious drive to get there... and that it's not very jetboat friendly.

I don't know what the answer is, but dang it, these rivers are some of the gems of the Ozarks, and like I said, they deserve better. The one good thing about the Meramec is that it's big enough that the water patrol can run their jetboats on it and enforce some laws--whether they actually do so or not is another matter. But Huzzah and Courtois are too small for jetboats in the summer so they don't even get policed by the water patrol much.

At one time, Crawford County got serious about policing the Meramec. Made a lot of arrests for drunkenness, drug use, and nudity, and calmed things down for a while. It's a shame, but that's what is needed on all these streams--some serious law enforcement. I'm beginning to believe that some kind of tax on ALL watercraft using these rivers like maybe a sticker you have to buy to be on them in a private boat and a tax on all rentals that is earmarked to pay for a full time water patrol officer (or two) on each stream might be a way to remedy the situation. I know that the last time I was on the popular stretch of the Huzzah in the summer (on a Wednesday) I saw a number of underage drinkers, a lot of litterers, and one case of illegal ATV use in the stream bed. It's a "target rich environment" for law enforcement.