What Happened To The Browns?

[Phil Lilley]

As far as numbers, back in the late 1970's when I used to come over and fish, the waders lined the bank, shoulder to shoulder from outlet #2 to rebar. When someone would hook a fish they'd yell "fire in the hole" and head downstream while others down the line would reel in and let him pass. My point was the numbers, not the yelling...

Most say the 60's and early 70's were Taney's hay-day but word got out and big fish were caught out. Everyone kept fish- no catch and release. Sure food supply was much better but then MDC stocked 1.7 million rainbows starting in the late 70's and overstocked the lake- there goes the big food supply. I think there were more factors to it's decline but overpopulation was the biggest, I believe.

Today there's a much better balance between stocking and food base but the food base depends on water flow - IMO.

Not sure how you could find out for sure but I think angler numbers are down from past years. I know boating numbers are down for sure. Couple of reasons- resort/rooms have been cut in half the last 8 years. Marina/boat rentals too. Wading numbers below the dam depends on generation- if they are generating all the time, like now, then numbers are down. If the water is off on the weekend in the fall then the lake is crowded and people think there's more people than normal. But I remember back in the 90's the upper end being packed in the fall.

Lots of variables and no scientific numbers to go to really. MDC creel study but I'm not sure if that would help what we're talking about.

I'll check on the rainbows vs browns on water temperature. I've heard the same thing, Bruce, but I've also heard it the opposite way too. I think MDC believes that we lost our browns in Sept '08.

I'm asking some questions to MDC hatchery and fisheries.

[laker67]

As far as numbers, back in the late 1970's when I used to come over and fish, the waders lined the bank, shoulder to shoulder from outlet #2 to rebar. When someone would hook a fish they'd yell "fire in the hole" and head downstream while others down the line would reel in and let him pass. My point was the numbers, not the yelling...

Most say the 60's and early 70's were Taney's hay-day but word got out and big fish were caught out. Everyone kept fish- no catch and release. Sure food supply was much better but then MDC stocked 1.7 million rainbows starting in the late 70's and overstocked the lake- there goes the big food supply. I think there were more factors to it's decline but overpopulation was the biggest, I believe.

Today there's a much better balance between stocking and food base but the food base depends on water flow - IMO.

Not sure how you could find out for sure but I think angler numbers are down from past years. I know boating numbers are down for sure. Couple of reasons- resort/rooms have been cut in half the last 8 years. Marina/boat rentals too. Wading numbers below the dam depends on generation- if they are generating all the time, like now, then numbers are down. If the water is off on the weekend in the fall then the lake is crowded and people think there's more people than normal. But I remember back in the 90's the upper end being packed in the fall.

Lots of variables and no scientific numbers to go to really. MDC creel study but I'm not sure if that would help what we're talking about.

I'll check on the rainbows vs browns on water temperature. I've heard the same thing, Bruce, but I've also heard it the opposite way too. I think MDC believes that we lost our browns in Sept '08.

I'm asking some questions to MDC hatchery and fisheries.

First off, thanks, for checking into what mdc might say about the decline of big browns. They most likely will say that there is no decline, and we have become spoiled in our expectations of super fish. Like you, I can remember, and was fortunate enough to fish in the mid 70's. Wow, we mostly caught big fish because they were there. I had just started learning "sight fishing" back then. It was like sitting in a tree stand with shooter bucks everywhere you looked. One false move and they all went running to cover. I made a lot of false moves back then. I can recall maybe 45 to 50 people on the river at one time back then. And granted, that seemed like a huge crowd. But I believe crowds are much greater now, like 3x greater on an average. Night time crowds have increased to 10x from the late 90's. That "fire in the hole" phrase brings back memories. For those of you who do not know George Girth, he wore a felt hat with his entire collection of flys on "it" instead of in the vest. He also, like many back then, wore hip waders. George yells "fire in the hole" and takes off after a big fish. At some point he slips and falls head first. Waders are full, fish is still on, his head is pointed downstream mostly underwater. Dale Eperson is trying to get to him to help. Every time George could get his head above water for a breath of air, he would yell "save my hat" .

[snagged in outlet 3]

I agree with Phil. I remember guys with stringers of 20+ inch fish all caught on mightcrawlers. With live biat they would put the hurt on some big fish.

I said it back when they started it and I'm saying it again today. Fish ladder. Those bigguns could go up the ladder undetected to do their thing and return down river.

SIO3

[Phil Lilley]

Here's what I got from Clint Hale, hatchery manager:

~~ Rainbows are diversely affected by warmer water temperatures, more so than browns. False

~~ Browns are diversely affected by warmer water temperatures, more so than rainbows. True

September, 2008 high water/flood gates is the likely cause of losing most of our brown trout. True or False? True

Did you see a good number of large browns move up the fish ladder this year. Large meaning 15-20 pounds plus. Or do you ever see browns this large anytime move up the ladder? We did see a descent number of larger browns come up the ladder (We are still spawning). However, we are talking in the 5-8lb range and not 15-20.

There are more questions put to Shane but he's sleeping in this morning

[snagged in outlet 3]

Could we be early? It's only Halloween.

Pete

[Phil Lilley]

I don't think so. This should be in the middle or past the middle of the peak run. Here in two weeks, most of the browns will have moved back down.

I may be off though. I'll refer to Rick or others who are up there more than I.

[Jason R.]

Could we be early? It's only Halloween.

Pete

I am an Arkansan and just an occasional visitor... But could it be all the old guys snagging fish in the outlets every fall? I was disgusted last fall- I bet I saw 15 big browns snagged in the belly. I was fishing 6x and midges- which is all I found that they would take- and few would take even then- a retiree/snagging "fly fisherman" informed me that I ought to use at least 9 pound line and 5-8 flies... which is what he had on... in order to snag fish in the belly... disgusting.

[snagged in outlet 3]

I think it was worse years ago Jason.

I thought November was the big month. That's why they shut down Bull Shoals tomorrow till Feb.

We've been doing a Thanksgiving trip down there for many years and we always see big browns around then.

Pete

[Jason R.]

I think it was worse years ago Jason.

I thought November was the big month. That's why they shut down Bull Shoals tomorrow till Feb.

We've been doing a Thanksgiving trip down there for many years and we always see big browns around then.

Pete

I would have hated to see it back then. That has to kill most of those fish- i mean they get a big hole ripped in their skin and possibly in the guts or what have you. The same junk happens at the little red every fall too- I guess the best you can do is to kindly inform people that snagging with a fly rod is not cool/illegal (though unenforceable) and that it is detrimental to the fish and everyones' fishing. Also, it does not make one cool or tough, though it is hard to tell if the fish was snagged in the grip and grin shot.

[Bman]

Here's what I got from Clint Hale, hatchery manager:

~~ Rainbows are diversely affected by warmer water temperatures, more so than browns. False

~~ Browns are diversely affected by warmer water temperatures, more so than rainbows. True

September, 2008 high water/flood gates is the likely cause of losing most of our brown trout. True or False? True

Did you see a good number of large browns move up the fish ladder this year. Large meaning 15-20 pounds plus. Or do you ever see browns this large anytime move up the ladder? We did see a descent number of larger browns come up the ladder (We are still spawning). However, we are talking in the 5-8lb range and not 15-20.

There are more questions put to Shane but he's sleeping in this morning

Phil, Thanks for checking into that.