Smallmouth Issues/msa Meeting

[timinmo]

Guys it always seems like we worry more about our differences than bond with the things we all agree on. To be honest I do belong to MSA and I joined because overall I think they represent my interests in preserving and improving river fishing. I have always felt that a unified voice was much stronger than several single voices. I joined the Conservation Federation of Missouri for the same reason. While I go to most of the MSA meetings I have never been to a CFM meeting and doubt that I ever will but I think they represent my interests. I want my voice amplified and I think these organizations do this. TU does this for trout fisherman as DU does for duck hunters. I also feel that there are always voices on the other side of any issue, I want my voice to be as strong as I can make it. If I lived in an area that I did not feel was represented by MSA there are no rules against forming my own organization.

My concerns are not that anyone join MSA, its the separations that always seem to divide us. Whether it is rural verses urban, canoeist verses jet boater, or St Louis area verses the Southwest Missouri area. I not pointing any fingers, surely there is enough blame to go around, but the old divide and conquer might apply.

Tim

[timinmo]

Chief

Just read your post about putting up some signs at bait shops. I think it is genius. Several in my area have a photo board somewhere near the front and one of the signs would look real good among all the fish and deer pictures.

Tim

[Chief Grey Bear]

The only concept I'm not grasping is what the frequency of my smallmouth trips has to do with anything.

How did they make it for thousands of years with zero human intervention if they so badly need thinning? That's my question.

Just don't think it is right for someone that fishes very little to restrict those that fish far more.

If you understood the workings of the slot, which is to help you catch bigger fish on your few trips per year, which I think is what you are wanting, you wouldn't be asking rediculous questions. I would like to hear from you why you think the rivers were just chocked full of super huge smallmouth just waiting for someone to catch them?? And don't forget, there were more natural predators then as oposed to now. But at any rate, noone can say with anything other than an assumption that fishing was any better then than now.

Chief

Just read your post about putting up some signs at bait shops. I think it is genius. Several in my area have a photo board somewhere near the front and one of the signs would look real good among all the fish and deer pictures.

Tim

Thanks Tim. Its not something I apparently do very often.

[ozark trout fisher]

Just don't think it is right for someone that fishes very little to restrict those that fish far more.

Well Chief, I remember once upon a time when we were having another of these fun little smallmouth discussions when you told me that I fished very little...The year I logged near about a hundred days on the water. How much do you fish man? It must be a lot.

Not all of us are blessed to live right on fantastic smallmouth water, but that doesn't mean that we fish "very little", and shouldn't have a say in this. Just something worth pointing out, and I want to do my fair share to get this thread to ten pages:)

[Chief Grey Bear]

I get about 50 or so days in. That is about all I can get with 2 kids and a job. Lucky you. If I could get both days of the weekend, I'd be right with you.

I was being liberal with 12 for him. Summer is his busy time, and time off for him is a premium! It would be like me pushing for reg on how many times you can ride the roller coaster at Six Flags because I don't like long lines, but only go once a year.

[Al Agnew]

Guys, I didn't need to come home from a fishing trip today and read all this. For crying out loud, don't we all want good stream smallmouth fishing? Can anybody honestly say that they are doing more, or as much, for it as the Smallmouth Alliance? If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. If you don't like how the ONE organization in the state that actually works for better smallmouth fishing is doing things, then either join them and put in your two cents worth from the inside, or shut up and start your own organization, or do it on your own. I don't mind arguing the finer points of what could or should be done...I think that's very productive as well as interesting, and it could eventually result in getting points across. But geez, why in the world would you feel that dissing the SMA without having anything constructive to say, griping because they don't represent SW MO, etc. is productive?

If I'm being too harsh, I'm in about as bad a mood as you can be after spending the day on the river and catching more than 30 bass. Why? Because I'm about ready to throw up my hands and give up on ANYTHING being able to improve the numbers of big fish on jetboatable streams like the Meramec. Yes, I caught 30 some odd bass, about 3/4ths smallmouths. Eight or so over 15 inches. A 17.5 incher, a 17 incher, and a 16.5 incher. And you know what? Those three biggest ones ALL had nasty gig wounds. The biggest was gigged in the meaty part of the tail about halfway between the tail fin and the back of the dorsal fin. One tine, went all the way through from top to bottom. Top hole was about half healed over. Skin on both sides from top to bottom was swollen, red, infected. Bottom hole was horrible, totally unhealed with a big wad of fungus growing out of it.

The second biggest was even worse. The fish had been hit just behind the head, with the gig at an angle. One tine went from top of the back all the way through and coming out just above the pelvic fin, another tine went through the top of the gill cover and out the bottom of the gills, third tine was on the other side of the body and farther back, and just skinned the side of the fish an inch or so behind the pectoral fin. Again, the wound in the back was about 3/4ths healed, but the wound in the belly next to the pelvic fin was unhealed and had the same fungus growing from it, and the wounds in the gill cover were red and infected.

The third one got lucky. The pinhead who tried to gig it had the gig turned so that the tines were lengthwise to the fish, and he almost missed, leaving four parallel, perfectly spaced gashes on the fish's side, which were mostly healed.

I took pictures of all three fish. If you care to see them I'll post them. All three came from the same pool, which is pretty close to an access but is a good wintering pool where I've caught lots of big fish inpast years. What are the chances that any big fish wintering in that pool this winter escaped being gigged? How many of them died? What are the odds that those two biggest ones are going to succumb to those wounds eventually?

And if I hear one person say that those could be heron scars or something else stupid like that, I'll be happy to tell them to their face that they're an idiot.

And the next time I hear somebody from MDC say there's no evidence that gigging is harming bass populations, I'll let them know exactly how incredibly stupid THAT statement is, too.

What are the chances that ANY regulation designed to produce more 18 inch plus smallies will work in popular gigging streams, since it appears that in any good gigging year a huge percentage of those that have survived to that size will be gigged by some selfish cretin?

In fact, what are the odds that half or more of those nice little money tags that MDC is so happy to be getting back came from smallies that were gigged to get them? I'll lay odds that one reason the cretins seem to have gigged more smallies this year than ever is because they figured they might get lucky and gig a tagged fish. Not only do something illegal, but actually benefit from doing it!

[joeD]

I think it was the esteemed and sensible former senator from New York, Daniel Patrick Moynihan, who said that "all politics are local." And that is what "this" is. Even though we have a common interest, smallmouth bass fishing on Missouri Ozark streams, witness the passion and divergent opinions on how best to achieve angling harmony.

So, now you know what the MDC goes through when enacting fishing regulations. In point of fact, our MDC is, in general, quite stellar when it comes to protecting and advocating, for its citizens. How to best allocate finite resources for the good of all. A thankless and daunting task that, really, makes no one happy, but no one really that sad either. Politics is compromise. That is how civilization moves forward.

There is no absolute "right" way to manage (if we can, in our hubris, "manage" nature") our beloved smallmouth bass. What we can do, however, is keep an open mind, focus on our commonality, not become entrenched in personal differences, and try to better "our" fishing experiences.

Or not.

("Bartender!.....More of the same!....glug...)

BTW: Didn't I just say that the problem is not the MDC, but the "LOCAL" fishermen. Yes. I. Did. And yes they do. Period. Local f****** a******* are ruining OUR streams. It's not you. Or me. It's you know who. F*** them. THEY ARE THE PROBLEM. Quit dancing around it. Geez.

("Bartender!.... Another!....slurp..)

[fishinwrench]

In fact, what are the odds that half or more of those nice little money tags that MDC is so happy to be getting back came from smallies that were gigged to get them? I'll lay odds that one reason the cretins seem to have gigged more smallies this year than ever is because they figured they might get lucky and gig a tagged fish. Not only do something illegal, but actually benefit from doing it!

Yeah, no $#!t ! Never thought about that, thanks for raising my blood pressure yet another notch. That is without a doubt a realistic scenario. 75 bucks would be hard for even an otherwise "reasonably ethical" gigger to pass up. I bet they never even considered that when they announced the tagging efforts....prolly shoulda kept that on the downlow.

I hate to say it but I am glad that YOU got to see, and FEEL what a few of the rest of us have seen over and over with the gigging thing. Especially on the lower Niangua....it's bad.

It pisses me off because they'd set up a night-time sting in a heartbeat to catch a guy with a joint or a beer bong, but stalking a suspected gig boat has never EVER happened, to my knowledge.

If they'd just try a little they could bust a certain outfitter on the Niangua for giving safe harbour to illegal gigging and sieze the darn place. It would make for a dandy PUBLIC ACCESS!

To hell with all this "new regulations" BS, the movement should be towards inforcing the laws and regs rhat are already on the books. That would make all the difference in the world, and would make up for the other issues. Let the catch and eat guys keep a limit when (and if) they can catch a limit...but inforce the illegal crap with considerably more enthusiasm than they have in the past.

[exiledguide]

A lot to digest. About the signs at access points, I put the signs on the James River from Delaware Town down to Galena in 2010. I sent emails out last year to Matt Wier to put out more signs at other areas in SW MO, never got any. Would be happy to replace those if needed and to put signs on other streams where they are needed. I might also add that when I called the MDC office to find out the proper place to put them I was told it was illegal to post any signs on MDC access property I put them up anyway and with metal post that I purchased.

I was one of the all most nobody who atended the meetings that Gary Lane held in Springfield.

I joined MSA because I think that they are the only group that is doing anything about the problems in smallmouth streams I don't believe that world class smallmouth fishing is an attainable goal in most MO streams. I hope I'm wrong but other than the Gasconade or Meramac I don't know that our streams have the water to grow realy big fish. So I don't agree that all their goals are practical.

I like the idea of over under on the slot limits, but would prefer 6 under 12 inches and none over. If we really want to protect big fish I've seen good results in lakes with slot limits.

To guys that say they don't eat smallmouth because they don't taste good. . Are you saying you would eat them if they tasted great? Worms in smallmouth? Have you ever cleaned a google eye in the summer and not found worms? I don't kill smallmouth in streams because they are too valuable to me and I havn't kept a smallmouth from a stream in over twenty years or from a lake since 1999. I really don't get upset if other people keep smallmouth if it is legal. I wish they wouldn't but it's legal. I'm also sure that you guys, if you catch a 20 inch or longer you are going to release it immediatly and not wait for someone to get out a camera to take a few pictures. I'm sure that is legal but I don't like it.

I do believe that no effort to improve fishing is going to work if the Mr Praters of the world are going to be allowed to run the Chief Grey Bears off the stream. If I have any criticism of the MSA I think they should be all over that. I think if that had happened around St Louis they would be.

[Trout Commander]

Yes, lets be realistic....you fish maybe 12 times a year for smallmouth. MAYBE on a good year. So maybe we shouldn't pretend we have even an adequate grasp of the concept.

And that is what, 2 or 3 times the amount of smallmouth trips Drew has taken in his entire life? By your logic he shouldn't even be allowed to read this thread, let a lone post in it.

Point being, the amount of time you get to spend chasing a smallmouth obviously doesn't have any sort of relative proportion to how much you might care about them or even know about them. Also, I would venture to say that much like you and I, Chief, that Eric spent exponentially more days chasing smallies in years past than he has at his current point in life (read as before wives, kids and less demanding jobs).