Regulations For Browns Need To Change!

[ozark flyflinger]

Montauk is a put and take fishery, Let them take stocker rainbows. My vote is release all Brown trout inside the trout park...............

This treasure must be preserved, let the meat hunters stay in the park..............

[Chris Gates]

I would like to see the limit on browns in the park match that of the Blue Ribbon Area. However, a couple thoughts come to mind. I wonder how many big browns people catch in a day in the park when a good number of fish have swam up to the spring? Meaning, if one guy caught one, harvested it, I think it is rare that he will catch another one that day. He may catch one on his next trip down but his one fish under the blue ribbon regs would still allow for the harvest no different then if he was allowed to take 4. I believe a lot browns are being harvested in the park. However this is being done 1 angler at a time. 1 fish or 4, they will still be harvested when they swim there.

Also, if a guy was catching and releasing browns with consistency in the park could you imagine the lack of proper fish handling skills. Most park fisherman don't do a good job handling trout accordingly. I don't say this sarcastically, its just fact. I really think many treat them like bass. I have two boys 7 & 10 that love camping at Montauk. It's not my first choice to fish but I do spend a fair amount of time there in the park for camping so dad catches lots of stockers. I can't remember a guy walking around with more then one brown. However, I do remember a 22 inch brown being caught above the dam. Fish jumped over the dam during high water.

[Trout Commander]

Just curious, when and why did Browns become so much more "special" than Rainbows?

It happens about the time when Brown's reach a point where they start eating Rainbows from the stocking truck.

[Gavin]

Brown trout are special.So are stocker rainbows, but in different ways. It just depends on what you value them for. Given the choice between stocker bows and big brown trout...I'll go for the big brown trout first. If forced to fish for stockers. I'll sharpen the fillet knife, buy some peanut oil, and some Ande's.

You would be surprized at the numbers of big browns that come out of the park. Didnt bother to count them all, but there were 50+ over 3lbs on the Montauk Lunker Board last year..some up to 7lbs..No issues with that because a brown usually has to grow to 18-19" to reach the 3lb mark. If they are taking 50+ over 18-19" out in the park. The numbers of 15-17.5" browns has to be a heck of allot higher. You might think that park anglers are a bunch of amatuers, but there are quite a few that are very good anglers. Dont underestimate them.

[Idylwilde]

What I have seen is the same 4 or five anglers come up with 4 brown trout all over 3 to 8 # as much as 3 times a week. One angler was on the board with over 18 browns in the 5 to 8# class. I hear the anglers who witnessed the catch tell what they saw. & believe me when I say I hear and see a lot that goes on when the brown's hit the park. I hear the anglers brag about they have found a big brown and are going to catch it on a white jig, and in less than an hour has it on a stringer along with two or three more. These guys never bring in a fish under 3#. One young boy last year caught a 8# brown on Berkley cheese bait and was so proud to have caught it. I was so happy to have heard that he caught it also. This is what the Brown Trout mean to anglers, they are a trophy fish to them. I am sure he would been just as proud if the fish would have been a 3# rainbow or brown. But the fact that this brown was not a hatchery plant for at least 3 or 4 years makes a difference. The rainbow at 3# to 18# are stocked in the park and only last a few day's. I do not believe that any fish that has been stocked inside the park will ever grow to 4# from stocking size.

The brown trout that are stocked below the park stand a chance to grow to their size because of the rules which are set in that area. Then because of the instinct to find cooler water in the hot part of the summer they swim into a slaughter house so to speak. I have no trouble at seeing anglers inside the park take a 18" brown. In the same time I hate to see the complete whipe out of all the big browns. How hard would it be to just set a limit 1 at 20" for everyone? The agents would not have any question as to the size or number of browns a guy has. At least a few of the 15 to 18" fish could make the trip through the park and back to safe waters to continue to grow for another year.

I also understand the economy of the brown trout to the state. We have people who spend money in the state just to come catch a trophy Brown. Gas. Motel, Tackle, Food, I don't have to tell you guy's about what you spend to travel to your dream fishing spot. Would you come back to a fishing area that you caught nothing that it was advertised as ( A trophy Area.) Just my thought on the subject.

[laker67]

. You might think that park anglers are a bunch of amatuers, but there are quite a few that are very good anglers. Dont underestimate them.

Most people look at park anglers in that respect, and several from this board. Thanks for your comment Gavin. I have had the pleasure to know and fish with several from all of the parks. The vast majority of these guys are not only fine anglers, but fine sportsmen in addition. Most if not all of the fish they catch, are returned to the water unharmed. They will, on occasion, keep a personal best or a park record fish. The gentleman that Idylwilde speaks of is a fine angler but has not learned the art of returning a respectable fish to fight another day. These other park anglers that I speak of are the ones that you never really notice on the creek. They will never crowd you out, they are friendly, and probably one of the first to offer you a fly or even share the water with you. They don't need a camera crew or a trip to the lunker board. I am proud to be friends with these fine sportsmen.

[POKAT]

I think you hit the nail on the head Idylwilde. The "trophy hunters" will stop at nothing to get a big fish in their net. Last year I witnessed a young man snag, accidently, a large brown. He was very excited and reeled it in. When it got to the bank, the "hunters" were there and told the man it was snagged then proceded to reach out and break his line. Within 2 minutes, the "hunters", 6 of them with jigs had hooked it on the jaw, and netted it. The fish was so worn out it hadn't even swam away from the bank. The guys were high-fiving each other and walked off to find the next big fish. These guys are members of a fishing "club" and send out newsletters of their great fishing accomplishments.

I don't think that a size or numbers limit will help these fish within the park. It will maybe give them a day or 2 reprieve, but the word will get out as to where they are and they are as good as caught. I mean, what is the differance between one guy catching 4 big fish a day or a group of 4-6 guys each catching 1 a day? I believe that regulations like these, even though I agree with them, will not be helpful within the park boundries until these type of "fishermen" cease their actions.

[laker67]

I think you hit the nail on the head Idylwilde. The "trophy hunters" will stop at nothing to get a big fish in their net. Last year I witnessed a young man snag, accidently, a large brown. He was very excited and reeled it in. When it got to the bank, the "hunters" were there and told the man it was snagged then proceded to reach out and break his line. Within 2 minutes, the "hunters", 6 of them with jigs had hooked it on the jaw, and netted it. The fish was so worn out it hadn't even swam away from the bank. The guys were high-fiving each other and walked off to find the next big fish. These guys are members of a fishing "club" and send out newsletters of their great fishing accomplishments.

I don't think that a size or numbers limit will help these fish within the park. It will maybe give them a day or 2 reprieve, but the word will get out as to where they are and they are as good as caught. I mean, what is the differance between one guy catching 4 big fish a day or a group of 4-6 guys each catching 1 a day? I believe that regulations like these, even though I agree with them, will not be helpful within the park boundries until these type of "fishermen" cease their actions.

Unfortunately there are people like you speak of that give a bad rap to the anglers I spoke of in post # 76. These guys stand out on the creek and do so intentionally. I call them snaggers and not anglers and they have egos to make up for their limited angling abilities. What they do is unethical and will someday have to face the consequences of their actions. It makes me want to trip wire them in the next deep hole and hold them under for awhile.

[Idylwilde]

Laker67 the fine angler I speak of I heard tell another fine angler one day the way to catch a big fish is to "harass it to a point to where it lays down in a whole exhausted and gasping for oxygen and then pull a visible jig in it's mouth and yank!" That's not my words it's the fine anglers.

No matter what skill level and angler is or wither or not he is an honest angler. One Brown trout of a legal size should be held as a standard State wide.

[laker67]

Pokat made mention of the 5 to 6 jokers and their snagging abilities. I can tell a story of a similiar pair that used to frequent bssp on a regular basis in the 70's and 80's. They were at bssp alot, and never failed to travel to the other parks during derby events. Back then, big stringer at a derby paid 100 to 150 dollars. They used a snagging system that required both of them to cast to the same fish. Myself and at least one other person from this board, have witnessed it on a few occassions. Newly released lunkers have a tendency to hold very tight and are rarely spooky. This pair would position themselves directly upstream, and the person on the right would cast to the left side and downstream of the fish. The person on the left would do the opposite. As they retrieved, the two lines formed and "X" in front of the fish dragging each lure directly along side of the fish. When one of the lines touched the fish in the face, he would turn away directly in the path of the other lure. Bingo, snagged in either the pectoral fin or the gill plate. Sometimes both lures would snag up. Several of us would hound and harrass them to the point that they quit coming to bssp. We find out later that they took their skills to the norfork and white rivers. One of the pair ended up with a line class world record from norfork. You will never convince me that it was a legal catch. As with the fish they turned in for derby events, you would basically have to forever lie about how you" legally" caught those fish.