What Fish Would You Like To Se Stocked And Where.

[Tim Smith]

You keep referring to "we". Does that mean "you" are a part of mdc or dnr? Because "we" as the average sportsman would not be funding multi thousands of dollars projects just to import exotics to our home waters. I don't see that "we" have alot of control or say so about what mdc or dnr would or would not do. So don't go blaming the average "we" for what "you" might be part of.

I think anglers have a heck of a lot of power. Illinois has a no creel spawning season for smallmouth specifically because of the Smallmouth Alliance. There's vastly better EPA protection on bodies of water that support fisheries and that's because of "us"...or "you" or however you want to chose up sides. "Fishable waters" is the standard of the Clean Water Act.

Whether we know it or not, we are heart and soul of aquatic conservation in North America.

When "we" anglers (and yes, I've been on both sides of the fence but I'm a private consultant now so I'm more in the angler camp than the DNR camp) ask for things, we often get them.

I'm just hoping we don't regret it when we get what we ask for.

[Tim Smith]

Tim, if by your reasoning then there should be NO Trout,Hybrids,Stripers,Musky, Walleye and the list goes on. Heck we could say all the big Resevoirs shouldnt be here even. They are all invasives if you want to get down to the bottom line. Roads, Houses and shopping malls are all invasive as well. The car you drive the boat you ride in the plants in your garden. Anything NOT native shouldnt be here is I am reading you right.

The greatest invasive species is MAN. There are species found way outside of their native range and have nothing to do with stocking programs or pets getting loose they hitched a ride on a Plane, Train or automobile. It is going to happen! Yes I know the arguements that DNR's should be more careful and I fully know they have made some mistakes but at the time they were using the best Science possible at that time to make the choice they did.

I wont fault them for mistakes they made using the best knowledge they had at the time. They pulled the trigger and did it. I have seen people at work who were so afraid of risk they lost jobs, thre is a time when you have to use the best information possible and take a gamble or there will never be progression.

So we have these man made resevoirs now, Why not stock them with fish that will help the economies around them and give pleasure to anglers? The worlds population is increasing daily why shouldnt science be creating fish that could help feed the people and possibly in doing so reduce the need for wild harvest. Science isnt always a evil demon.

Having made my living as a scientist for the last 22 years, I'd have to agree that science is not an evil demon. And there are probably times it makes sense to stock things and we probably do need reservoirs to take care of our needs for water and recreation (although certainly we have more than enough by now).

But as you seem to recognize, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. The "best science possible" would avoid the mistakes of the past.

I was working at UC Davis one day when I met a geneticist sulking under a tree on the quad (pretty close to the spot where those "Occupy" students were recently maced by the Davis Police Department). He was mad because the bioethics committee didn't let him take a gene for scorpion venom into a commercial plant variety. All I can say is "Way to go bioethics committee!" Letting these gene guys do whatever they want is a recipie for disaster. Stocking (can be but isn't always) as bad.

Nature took a long time to build and it's far more complicated than anything man ever did. In general, we don't know the long term implications of what we're doing. We should be more conservative rather than less conservative, especially on recreational issues.

I'd like to see the trend to move toward depending less on stocking and trying hard to build sustainable fisheries from natural reproduction. Right now, the knee jerk reaction is exactly the opposite. Not enough fish? Stock more. Bored with what you normally catch? Throw in something new for shucks and giggles. What was one of the major initiatives to recovery from the Gulf oil spill? Throw stocked fish back into the polluted estuaries. Awful.

The model of throwing stocked fish from anywhere and everywhere into broken ecosystems and sometimes breaking them even more is the one we inherited but it's one we need to move beyond.

There are good, viable smallmouth fisheries nestled into metropolitan Chicago rivers that are rarely stocked. Go to the ISA web page and look at the pigs they catch right out of the shadow of the skyscrapers. Why not market fisheries like that? We can do this.

[Gavin]

Tim were do your stand on the Arkansas Trout issue? USFWS has defunded the Norfork National Fish Hatchery again. The pol's, trout guides, and dock owners are all up in arms about it. Do you think its possible for a sustainable wild trout fishery down there? Radical culture shift required of course....but possibe or not? My buddy Bob Heine seems to be the only one speaking in favor of wild fish down there.

[Feathers and Fins]

Tim you and I both know that a sustainable fishery is the goal of all DNR’s where possible. And where human population hasn’t gone out of control it works. Some species are listed as unsustainable by natural reproduction because of specific requirements, thus requiring breeding facilities to replenish the stock AKA Stocking programs.

Many people don’t fish waters such as the one you pointed out purely because of pollutants and warnings not to eat fish. Again this goes back to Human impact on the fishery both in Population and other.

It’s not evil or wrong to give anglers a chance at species that would not typically be native to their home waters. If research shows the impact will be minimal or nothing. Science is all too often thought of evil because of what it discovers with newer technology. You can’t blame the best technology of one day for what is discovered years down the road. Yes there have been some mistakes but there has also been a lot of good. All anyone can do is make a determination based off the current knowledge and findings.

Hybridized fish are a very good alternative, If they are unable to breed and stocked for the pure enjoyment of anglers is not a bad thing. Frankenfish as some anglers call them are a fish of a lifetime to others. The weekend warrior who wants to catch a BIG fish doesn’t care about the biology involved or the science and research. They want to catch a big fish for pictures and bragging rights or to eat.

Those weekend warriors outnumber those who have a true background in marine biology and the ecosystems. You can scream and yell and kick your feet all you want but their voices are very loud to the DNR’s. There are fish that could do well in our lakes and that is where I would support them as those lakes were not native to start with and the construction of them forever changed the ecosystem of the river that was darn up to build them. Take advantage of those lakes and give the anglers chances at monsters in them. But do not mess with the untouched waterways. It is an argument that can be made to a DNR. You can only win so many battles and you need to pick which ones you can.

I am not saying not to try to make your voice heard on the others but some you will not win and all you can do is point out why it’s a bad idea and hope for the powers that be to listen. But if you are willing to “GIVE” alternatives instead of taking a hard-line approach you win more battles. The alternatives are saving the native waters by giving on the reservoir impoundments. Yes I understand you may lose a little on the rivers and creeks that feed them and their tributaries, but the effects can be managed with control structures.

It’s not a perfect world and with so many different groups involved the DNR will weigh the best solutions and if one with minimal impact but high potential for return on the investment is offered they tend to go with that on. Stocking programs are funded by anglers and boaters and so on by taxes and fees. So a DNR “being a business” if shown where the best return is will go with it.

[Nortrad]

Brown trout in the Eleven Point.....great habitat for them.

Yep, that's the best wish, big ol' browns in the 11 Pt.

[Wayne SW/MO]

They're trying to eradicate them in Yellowstone Lake and other western fisheries because of competition with native species.

last I heard they were doing the same with brook trout in Oregon.

Tim were do your stand on the Arkansas Trout issue? USFWS has defunded the Norfork National Fish Hatchery again. The pol's, trout guides, and dock owners are all up in arms about it. Do you think its possible for a sustainable wild trout fishery down there? Radical culture shift required of course....but possibe or not? My buddy Bob Heine seems to be the only one speaking in favor of wild fish down there.

Isn't that a different animal? I would think if they want to do that they should return the White to a warm water fishery and let it be self sustaining.

[Addicted to Creeks]

can someone tell me what the Arkansas trout issue is? i haven't heard anything about it

[Wayne SW/MO]

Some introductions avoid leaving waters virtually useless, something the people don't want if it can be avoided and the impact is secondary. This isn't my position, but just the way it is.

The White below the dams is now probably a world class trout fishery, at least the lowest section. It is an economic giant now compared to what it was in Jim Owen's day. The lower John Day was something of a sport fishing wasteland, except for a month or two in the winter, before the smallies were introduced, so good or bad they filled a void and that is probably what should drive all introductions, filing a void. If it can't meet that standard then it probably shouldn't be done.

[exiledguide]

Holy cow I thought this was supposed to be a light hearted question to kill time. Shame on you F&F look what you started! Al, I've seen 12 year old up on Cedar in NW Ontario land 20 lb class Muskie and Northern Pike and after Dad netted the fish the kid unhooked the fish and released it by himself.

[Tim Smith]

There's a little something going on at Lincoln univ. in JC with genetically altered bluegill intended as a commercial food source, If I understood right I believe one of their strains is hermaphroditic.

Now how long do you suppose it'll be before some of those "projects" find their way into waters that they weren't intended for? If they haven't already, that is.

It's inevitable. Every Asian carp you ever saw is here because of someone's failed biosecurity policy. Aquaculture has never show any ability to keep their stock out of the waters around them.