Guides

[Phil Lilley]

I think it depends on several factors. Guides aren't necessarily taking home the whole fee. It they're working through a lodge or something like that, they'll be splitting the fee. They usually cover their own costs like gas, food, maybe tackle, insurance, licensing, whatever. It's not waitressing, but it's not a way to get rich. If a guy busts his hump for me, I'm gonna let him know I appreciate it verbally, and will a tip. Most of it's gratitude, but part of it's a little selfish -- I want the guy to remember me. I've done as much as 25-ish percent.

But that's just my experience based on elsewhere. Phil's comment that most would be happy with $20 makes me think the expectations are pretty low for guides on Taney.

FWIW -- I have a lot of respect for people that can do that well. It takes a pretty unique skill set.

Yea- Babler's butt puckered when he read that I bet I should have said "I" would be satisfied with $20 but you got to understand I don't guide much (for $$) and don't make my living at it.

It all depends on the job the guide did - just like everyone is saying.

Can't really compare it to servers though. Big difference is pay scale as far as hourly wage. A guide here gets $350 for an eight hour trip - $43.75 per hour BUT he has another hour to three hours of travel/prep time before and after the trip. Then he has expenses - boat, truck, equipment, bait/lures, insurance and self employment tax. Lodge takes a minimum of 10%, sometimes more.

Have I talked ya out of being a guide yet???

[Greasy B]

Have I talked ya out of being a guide yet???

For a long time my goal in life was to be a fishing guide. About the time I figured a was good enough was about the time when I could afford a few guide trips. When I realized what they did all day it made my day job look a lot better. For the time being I'll stick with clicking a mouse and typing on a keyboard.

[Phil Lilley]

Seriously... you're got to have that gift -

1. Being in a boat with ALL kinds of people (ask Babler about his trip the other day ))

2. On the lake but not being about to fish.

3. The best guides make $70k but check out the business expenses closely (already mentioned).

4. Do it every day for 30 days or more, 85 out of 90 days. You NEED to guide every day you can to make it work. And the hours are long and hard, if you do it right.

5. Be a self promoter. You won't be able to pay someone, that's for sure.

6. Have to get a 6-pack license. Good times!!!

... and you LOVE it! You have to love it or people won't want to go fishing with you.

I'm sure I missed some points.

[dap306]

So I had a nice 4 hr trip and I gave him $20. Was I cheap?

[Phil Lilley]

Don't worry about it. Tell your friends about him, send him some business. He'd much rather have that than another $10.

[ness]

So I had a nice 4 hr trip and I gave him $20. Was I cheap?

Heck no you weren't cheap. Phil says the top guides, like Babler, are lucky to get $20. You might wanna call this guy and ask for $$ back

Seriously -- sounds like you're thinking you should have done more, but you did what felt right given what you knew at the time. I think the biggest 'tip' you could give at this point would be to spread the word about him. Right here would be a pretty good place to do it !

[Feathers and Fins]

Though never a Guide myself I have many friends who are fishing guides. I have deck-handed for them in a pinch. A client IMO should base tips off several factors.

1. Is it a Guide who is the owner operator or is it a Guide through a facility? If it is a Guide through a Facility I always say tip them based off the trip. I have seen good guides through a facility get bigger tips then the guide fee. Also give them payment for each fish they clean for you. Now if it’s a Owner Operator then a tip is not required as that person should have all the expenses factored in to his fee. However Owner operators it’s nice to tip them with gifts ( shirts lines Etc )

2. Duration of trip: If it is a 1 day or more than a tip of 15% has always been my norm as there is much more involved, yes the Guide might have it all factored in but long trips comfort is a plus and a guide who keeps me comfortable is getting a tip.

3. Meals: You provide me a shore lunch or breakfast I can promise you will get a tip if you are even a half way decent cook. Bolognas sandwich and you aren’t getting nothing!

4. Learning experience: If you can teach me things bet on a tip. You don’t and basically are hiding knowledge and you won’t.

5. Laughs, if a Guide could keep me laughing all day and my mind off life you are getting a tip and a big one! I fish to clear my head and replenish my soul. I think a day of laughter is more important to me than anything now.

Bottom line is each circumstance is different but there are certain things that trigger a tip and times I will not tip. I do not care so much about catching a fish as I do having a good time! If I am with a person who is screaming all day or foul mouthed or brings me down, THEN NO TIP.

When you find a good guide though SPREAD THE WORD about them, I will go to the word of mouth Business over the internet reviews and magazine ads! I want to hear it from people that they enjoyed the trip.

[dap306]

My guide was Chuck the owner of Anglers and Archery close to the dam. I have just started fly fishing this year and this was my 4th trip down. A coworker of mine that has just started with me goes also and we always stop at his store and pick up a few things and he has helped us and given us good advise so we decided to go out with him and we had a great experance. He made the trip fun and ribbed us when we deserved it. He was not impatient with us when we broke lines or tangled them a few times. He knew we would be wade fisherman by ourselves most of the time and he pointed things out to us that would help us. The most important thing was we had a blast. I am not a rich man so I can't afford these kind of things often but it was worth it. I have to say as a newbie a lot of people down there have helped us and treated us great and we now feel as if we may not be the best fisherman down there but we are able to show up down there and wade and catch fish on our own. Fly fishing is on my mind all the time now thanks to guys like Chuck and Phil Lilley and others we have met on the river.

[Nighthawk]

F and F, my son is a guide on the North Fork of the White. you'd love his service. he serves homemade chicken and dumplings for a shore lunch. his main theme is education. if he can teach his clients something as well as get them on fish, then he has had a good trip. some clients tip big some not at all; i think if it's their first guided trip they just don't know the etiquette.

[Bill Babler]

Never expected. Always welcome and shows appreciation on a job well done.

Newby's usually do not tip or tip minimal. Experenced clients that fish guides multiple days per year are usually at 20 to 30 percent. Have had many tips that are equal to the guide fee. The range is off the chart.

Had a 90 year old retired railroad worker from Iowa, give me 4 dollars for cleaning his fish, which I do for as part of the guide fee. Said in complete sincerety to take the wife out for a little dinner, that he really appreciated me and the work I put in and just wanted to give me something a little extra. I appreciated him for the thought and the 4 bucks meant a lot to me him seeing that. His son had bought the trip, and I guarantee you if he knew what it cost he would not have gone.

My boat truck and equipment easily tops $200,000.00 and is insured for more. You Read that Right. Average price for a trip for me with advertising and all the expense that I have and I have been doing it for over 20 years is a shade over $100.00 per trip. A 4 hr. trip for me is usually 7 hrs. and an 8 hr. trip is usually 11 hrs, These are real time figures with travel from site to site and preperation.

My gross is usually pretty good, but my tax man and Becky think I let quite a bit of it slip away. I guide between 280 and 320 trips per year, if we do Alaska on the upperend. Lots of 2 per days, and some the hated 3 per day. Getting to old for that now.

My expenses have risen every year I have guided, and we try the best we can to maintain the cost as reasonable as possible. I have not changed my rate in the last 5 yrs,. and my earnings have shown it, as I have made less each per trip those years. I have compensated by doing more and more trips. I am very luck I have that option.

I take guided trips and here is what i expect

Fully lic. and insured fishing guide

On time and prepared

Knowledge of the water we are fishing greater than the general public

Respect for the resource including other fisherman and all our surroundings

Top Flight Equipment and terminal tackle

Clean personal appearance and equipment maintained in topflight order.

Well spoken and no vulgarity of any kind or any use of alcohol during or before the trip

Diligent worker with multiple locations and plans of action.

Good knowledge of anything local, History, restaurants, lodging.

Patients and respect for the ability of the anglers he or she are guiding and the ability to get bites for the clients reguardless of their ability.

Be able to have a good time and enjoy his day on the water. Teach me a new trick, no matter how small.

I want to see the guide fish some. I want to see his or her ability to catch the fish I'm expected to catch. I have learned more by simply watching others than I ever learned on my own. Don't get me wrong, this is not a fishing competition, it is a guide trip. The job of the guide is to make the clients day, not catch his own personal best, but by the guide catching a fish it shows they are there and with the correct presentation I should be successful. Kind of puts the ball in my court, where it should be and gives me confidnece that it can be done and how to properly do it.

Things I could careless about;

How many fish I catch I'll have a great time just being there. To tell you the truth, I like it when its tough. If he gets a little pattern figured out I feel we earned it.

How big a fish I catch I've caught big fish, I don't need to catch one today. Puts to much prussure on myself and the guide. Not what I'm there for.

Hearing how good a fisherman my guide is

Hearing about past clients. "Kind of like hearing about past girlfriends.

Shore Lunch. Biggest waste of time ever to come down the pike. I'm paying to fish, I can eat at the end of the day at a 5 star restaurant if I want.

All in all I want a good guy that wants to be there as much as I do.