Would You Support This Legislation?

[Al Agnew]

All I'm seeing here is either people who don't think the streams have any serious problems, or who do but don't want to do anything to contribute to the possible solutions. Sure, it's easy to just say the present law enforcement people should do some enforcing, except that those enforcement people have a lot of other stuff to enforce that would have to go by the wayside to spend the time and effort it would take to do a good job of policing the rivers. And that's not counting the other needs the rivers have or are going to have.

Look, if you're sure that any new money we'd all pay would be wasted, I understand that. If you're so dirt poor you can't even afford a fishing license, I understand that, too. But for crying out loud, most of us spend many hundreds of dollars a year pursuing our fishing passion, but don't want to put back anything for the rivers we supposedly love, just because it's a "tax"? How about this...if we made it a voluntary payment would you pay a few bucks a year if you thought it would go to some policing and protection of the rivers? I wonder how many really would.

[Justin Spencer]

I have said it before and will say it again that I don't (and will never) apologize for my occupation. This is a job like many others, but it is also very rewarding when people you see year after year tell you that this is the trip they look forward to most every summer. This is my 9th year and I get to see kids grow up, go to college and start bringing their own groups who have never been to the river. I have had people say they are going to Hawaii, or Cancun, but nothing compares to coming down to the river with friends year after year. It's easy for others to see the bad side of things, but I see both sides, and the good (at least at my campground) outweighs the bad 99 to 1.

As much as some of you hate to admit it, this is a way for kids to experience the outdoors instead of sitting on the couch all summer. For most city kids this is their only opportunity to go fish, or enjoy "nature" and hopefully it plants a seed that they can pass down to their kids.

You see the drunks, I see the kids with nets catching crawdads, floating down the campground on lifejackets and walking back up to do it again, people laughing around a campfire and catching up on what has been happening in their hectic lives. Sure I deal with my share of drunks, but mostly they just are annoying talking my ear off. I wouldn't be opposed to a small usage fee, but I still think it should be at a local level where there is more control of how it is utilized.

[Addicted to Creeks]

Really great post justin. Its pretty moving to see someone who has a real passion for a job and the people who utilize the service

[jdmidwest]

I agree with Justin. While you may see some idiots on the river acting goofy, you see many more families and groups enjoying themselves.

And instead of raising taxes and fees on everyone, why don't you take stock in the real problem. Those kids were raised by someone, obviously they did not do it right. Why don't we fine the parents for not raising the kids right in the first place?

[hank franklin]

If the Water Patrol goes out busting heads on the river the rats will scurry off the ship and go elsewhere. So bring on the Water Patrol. If I was governor I'd direct more (EXISTING!) resources toward enforcement. No need for a new tax, just new priorities.

At the same time a user fee collected by the concessionaires is eminently fair and is probably way overdue. Hundreds of boats on the river causing litter and raising the need for enforcement? Well, duh. The users should pay! So the concessionaire collects his $33 per person and EXPECTS the State of Missouri to pick up the full tab for the clean-up, enforcement etc. Are you kidding me? Personal responsibility who?

If I was making my living off the river I would 100 percent favor anything I can to make that river better. I'd pick up the trash myself, give free food to the Water Patrol folks and Sheriff's Deputies, lobby my representative for MORE ENFORCEMENT, not less (a cleaner, literally and figuratively, river is good for business, right?) and if it came down to a tax on every boat make DANG sure it meant more enforcement, not just a shell game.

Instead we have people suggesting VOLUNTEERS to clean up after these fools? Are you kidding me? Yeah, sure, I'll volunteer to clean up all the detritus your drunks leave. And I'll sign up for the 8 a.m. float so my kids don't get my eyes and ears burned. Lovely.

Maybe this is harsh but I too am SICK of the river experience being ruined by drunk idiots. I simply won't take my kids on popular summer stretches anymore. It would be irresponsible of me to do so. The river ain't for tadpoling, splashing, blue-gilling anymore, it's for GETTING DRUNK AND STUPID!!!! Woo-hooo!

Welcome to Missouri, home of beautiful Ozark streams full of drunk idiots. Y'all come back now ya hear?

[Wayne SW/MO]

It's not the drinking, but whether it affect other people in a negative way. A campground owner can control a drunk in the next campsite that runs his mouth the wrong way and makes others uncomfortable, or wants to keep everyone awake at night. But only the law can control what goes on on the rivers.

You have to separate the two.

Hank I don't see the bar example applying to rivers. Businesses are private, rivers are like sidewalks.

[Feathers and Fins]

Are these rivers and creeks not in the jurisdiction of the county the state and even within the cities they flow through? Do those not already have law enforcement on their payroll? Should they not recieve the same protection a Street or Park does by those same officers?

How do you enforce a tax on the liveries fairly when their are private citizens who own canoes and other floating objects who will not be taxed? How do you enforce it on people who own the land ajoining the river who have those same floating objects? What about out-of -state people who come in with their floating objects?

No the solution is not an UNFAIR TAX on these business's. Some of these floaters come from around the Nation they save up all year for a vacation, others from the big cities who do not live here but none the less come, how can anyone expect ENFORCEMENT of any law without OFFICERS out ENFORCING the law?

Nice thoughts but they dont just come out of thin air, and a new tax is not going to be the solution. Say this tax went through and raises a few million a year, Buy the time the lieatitions get done with it the money will be earmarked all over the place again leaving the very thing it was started to protect unprotected.

I say the solution is raising all heck with the local goverments to the point that those creeks rivers and streams are patroled the same as the Streets highways and parks. The money is there the officers are there and all it would require is forcing the issue to those elected officials.

[gotmuddy]

I volunteer to go up and put the bikinis back on the naked chicks.

I volunteer to see you TRY. I can't help myself...if you have seen one pair, you pretty much want to see every other pair on the planet.

If the Water Patrol goes out busting heads on the river the rats will scurry off the ship and go elsewhere. So bring on the Water Patrol. If I was governor I'd direct more (EXISTING!) resources toward enforcement. No need for a new tax, just new priorities.

At the same time a user fee collected by the concessionaires is eminently fair and is probably way overdue. Hundreds of boats on the river causing litter and raising the need for enforcement? Well, duh. The users should pay! So the concessionaire collects his $33 per person and EXPECTS the State of Missouri to pick up the full tab for the clean-up, enforcement etc. Are you kidding me? Personal responsibility who?

If I was making my living off the river I would 100 percent favor anything I can to make that river better. I'd pick up the trash myself, give free food to the Water Patrol folks and Sheriff's Deputies, lobby my representative for MORE ENFORCEMENT, not less (a cleaner, literally and figuratively, river is good for business, right?) and if it came down to a tax on every boat make DANG sure it meant more enforcement, not just a shell game.

Instead we have people suggesting VOLUNTEERS to clean up after these fools? Are you kidding me? Yeah, sure, I'll volunteer to clean up all the detritus your drunks leave. And I'll sign up for the 8 a.m. float so my kids don't get my eyes and ears burned. Lovely.

Maybe this is harsh but I too am SICK of the river experience being ruined by drunk idiots. I simply won't take my kids on popular summer stretches anymore. It would be irresponsible of me to do so. The river ain't for tadpoling, splashing, blue-gilling anymore, it's for GETTING DRUNK AND STUPID!!!! Woo-hooo!

Welcome to Missouri, home of beautiful Ozark streams full of drunk idiots. Y'all come back now ya hear?

FWIW, in the 4 years I have been floating on saturdays and sundays on the NFoW, I have NEVER seen any kind of water patrol, except for one time last year when the lake was flooded and a boat came flying up the river.

[jdmidwest]

Our boats, trailers, motors, and transport vehicles are taxed and licensed already, why don't they use those fees for enforcement. Where exactly does that money go??

Back in the 80's, someone decided to create user fees in all public lakes that the Corps of Engineer own. They even started user fees on a lake that I fish, Council Bluff. What did the revenue create? One new job, a user fee collector.

The trouble with fees and taxes, they never go to the place we want them too. So what makes anyone think that a user fee increase on rivers will ever trickle back down to any enforcement? It may buy some new cars and equipment, but it will probably not make it down to more manpower to enforcement.

[oneshot]

What I would like to see is a roll back on the numbers of canoes allowed on some rivers. I don't know what the formula would be, but some rivers need it

The Niangua is the one that most often comes to mind.

I think they should cut all the outfitters back by issuing permanent permits for X number of canoes and temporary for the rest. make the temporary perments good for 5 years or about that. This would give the outfitters time to make the adjustment.

I know some, like people who float the NFOW or the 11PT probably think that's a little harsh, but you should go give something like the Niangua a float on a summer Saturday and see what river chaos is.

No way I could go with this considering Family and Friends that are having a hard enough time making ends meet in the Float Business on the Niangua River.

oneshot