Romney Whooped Him

[Justin Spencer]

Obamacare has not yet gone into effect, give it until 2015 then look at your bills.

Latest fuel increase have more to do with refinery outages and lack of pipeline capacity, oil is down to around $90/barrel.

First off, parts of Obamacare have taken effect, you think I'd have gotten a refund otherwise. Secondly refinery outages do play a big role, and that is private enterprise which gets big tax breaks and can't keep us in a steady supply, I say if they can't stay online take away their kickbacks.

you are thinkin' Justin. Good for you. When you get to be an old fart, you will laugh at yourself when you think back to the young days.

You're right Jerry, as Churchhill once said "If you are young and not liberal, then you have no heart; but if you are old and not conservative, then you have no brain," One thing that has changed since then is that we now need to start taking care of the planet, not just the people, and conservatives still don't seem to get it as a party, once they get that figured out I'll probably be on board.

[ness]

I can only speak for my family, but since Obamacare was passed my premiums only went up about $150 this year as opposed to nearly $1000 in previous years, and I got a $400 refund check from my insurance company. We got DSL out in the sticks, which the installer admitted was thanks to this administration. So in a couple instances my family has directly benefitted. Fuel cost is directly related to the GLOBAL oil prices so that can't be attributed to our production as much as we would like it to be.

Wait a minute -- you've got DSL thanks to the guvmint? Sh*t -- it's even worse that I thought. How can you sleep at night knowing you're suckin' at the teet while we're spending a trillion a year more than we take in?

And don't think for a minute you're $1,400 ahead in the end thanks to a $400 refund and avoidance of a $1,000 presumed increase in insurance. Ever stop to think where that's coming from? It's two major problems disguised as a windfall for you.

If you give a mouse a cookie...

[Feathers and Fins]

Wait a minute Justin, You insurance prims were going up a 1000 a year? Let say you have had Insurance for 10 years and yours was going up that amount 10,000 a year in premiums? I aint buying that I aint buying half of that unless you are talking for your employees as part of it.

WHICH brings up my next point on Nobama care, When it fully goes into affect employees will be wanting a raise to cover its cost IE MUST HAVE INSURANCE about 4200 a year which means they will want 2.10 an hour raise based on a 40 hour week. Now multiply that by how many employees you have, lets say 10 for a small business 43,000.00 a year. So now tell me how much has Obamacare saved you?

I rounded numbers to make it easy, but anyone who thinks that This president or his policies are a good thing need to look long at hard at what the real affects are. Now as to you getting DSL is from this administration seriously you bought that line. Those companies want money and are expanding and not because of this administration.

[Jack Jones]

I've been quietly watching this thread, but guess I'll chime in now. As the resident left-wing liberal here, I must say that the sad fact is we are on a downward spiral. One that I can only see ending in the destruction of this country and the establishment of a new form of government. More than likely it will be more dictatorial than the current plutocracy we live under is. The poor will suffer more than ever. The meager will eat the crumbs the wealthy throw them, and the wealthy will simply rule according to their whims.

Mitch, the Baby Boomers wouldn't have saved us. They couldn't. They're the ones who cleaned us out. They took all the plans and ideas that made their parents comfortable and reasonably secure, and completely scuttled them. Defined benefit became define contribution. Guess what? They didn't have the money to contribute! They spent it all in those first 50 years buying bigger and bigger houses, toys and gifts for their kids, and paying their kids (mostly) useless college educations. They learned NOTHING from their parents about thrift, sharing, and planning. They were greedy and taught their kids to be. Now that generation will reap what they sowed in the next 10-15 years, and their children, who they spoiled, will most likely turn their backs on them and throw their hands up while they simply try to get by.

The problem with a consumer economy is that they can't last unfortunately. When no one has the money to buy anything, the consumer economy grinds to a halt. Like it is now. The wealthy can support some industries for a while (technology, some automotive, and some real estate), but not the majority. The few industries growing, such oil and health care, will bottom out soon when the majority of people can no longer pay for their products. Any adjustments that are made will be at the expense of new growth. hate to tell you but there won't be any new jobs coming in the near future. Not en masse. Not without a major economic event to stimulate it.

As far as that goes, why do you think the Republicans want a war so bad? They know it worked the last time we needed an economic boost. It might work this time. Plus, then they wouldn't have to share any of their wealth. Anyone who thought that this economy could be stimulated or fixed in one 4 yr presidential term is unrealistic. It took FDR at least 8, after the Great Depression.

With respect to the debate, Romney did get one over on him. Obama was wholly unprepared. However, if you fact check what Romney said, the amount of lies, mistruths, and contradictions with his previous statements is nauseating. He now has a chance of winning, but God help us all if he does.

[ness]

This whole thing goes to a point that I think is overlooked. Everybody loves it when the guvmint comes in and does something that benefits them. But when you get right down to it, it's plain greed and selfishness. And it's an abdication of our obligation to support the right thing. It's the epitome of being unpatriotic!

Throw your philosophy aside for a minute. Forget those talking points that you've been subjected to ad nauseum, and think with your own brain for a minute. When taxes are high, and economic activity is stagnant, and unemployment is high, and the deficit is at record levels, and it makes more economic sense to set up shop overseas, and folks are getting unemployment for 2+ years, and food stamp participation has doubled, and new regulations on business are coming so fast they can't even meet their legislated enactment dates, and banks are discouraged from lending, and major 'shovel ready' projects are launched, and the Post Office figures out a way to lose $5 billion in a QUARTER, and 12 million illegal aliens came here and fill jobs 'we' wouldn't take, and healthcare costs are sky-rocketing, and hospitals are closing and being torn down and newer, beautiful ones built in 'better' neighborhoods, and drug companies can shrug off multi-billion dollar penalties...

Stuff is jacked up, bad.

[taxidermist]

There I was and here I go.

If I speak up on the polotical hoo hoo.

I just pray America chooses wisely.

Belize is sure looking great!!!

[Jack Jones]

Belize was on the list of country's with happiest population. The Scandinavian countries rank highly also. And they have a great heavy metal scene, LOL.

[rfd515]

http://youtu.be/GQZ5_qdHLV8

[Mitch f]

Not sure what that video represents

[Justin Spencer]

Wait a minute Justin, You insurance prims were going up a 1000 a year? Let say you have had Insurance for 10 years and yours was going up that amount 10,000 a year in premiums? I aint buying that I aint buying half of that unless you are talking for your employees as part of it.

I rounded numbers to make it easy, but anyone who thinks that This president or his policies are a good thing need to look long at hard at what the real affects are. Now as to you getting DSL is from this administration seriously you bought that line. Those companies want money and are expanding and not because of this administration.

I believe it was two or three years ago that the premiums for me and my two kids went up just short of $1000 ( i just about s*&T). Can't include premiums for my wife due to a preexisting condition that excludes her from coverage. I wouldn't be bragging about it only going up $150 this year if it hadn't been so outragous. (It surely wouldn't have kept going up at the $1000 rate per year but who knows)

As far as DSL goes I don't care if you believe it or not, but my installer made it clear he did not like Obama, but he said the govt. is why we were getting it out here. Companies were making just as much with us using dial up, air cards, or satellite, there aren't enough people out here to make it worth the trouble as they have to install a DSL "box?" every couple miles or so. We had bugged the phone company for years under dubya about getting it and they said maybe someday, but it just wasn't worth them doing it in the sparsely populated areas.

No one can pretend to know the long term effects of any policies because they change with each administration. Each party has to have large government to keep the country going. Plenty of areas have to be cut, but seems like when one side wants to cut something like 4 billion to big oil, that isn't enough to make a difference in the deficit, yet 250 million for PBS (which I also think should be cut) is a big step. Last time I checked the military was also government, and a major part of it, yet the side that wants to make major cuts never wants to improve the efficiency of the military, which would make a much bigger difference than getting rid of big bird.

Ness is right, and I have said it before, we all want government to spend money on programs as long as they are the ones important to us.