Do I Need A Baitcast Combo?

[bfishn]

No you do not. For the type of fishing you are talking about you really dont need one. Now if you got into Big fish ( Striper, Paddlefish or Catfish ) then i would say get one for the pure drag power of a casting reel. Im not talking basscasting reels but true baitcasters and there is a major difference in the to species. You hook up a bass baitcaster to say a Calcutta and see which one outpulls and outlast the other. The true Baitcasters will allow you to throw a bait as light as fractions of an ounce to as large as your rod and line will handle. Look up some of the youtube videos on California live bait fishing, guys are casting anchovies long distances and I have never seen a bass baitcaster that could do that with such a light bait without throwing it off, backlashing to hell or very short cast.

Every reel has its limitations and areas it excels and for what you are talking about a spinner is probably the best choice and most versatile reel. To be honest I do not even own a Bass Baitcaster, I have spinners that i use and when i get to a class that requires more i go to the true baitcasters.

100% +1

I have some "bass" baitcasters (ABU) and some "real" baitcasters (Penn), and for me, they're all special purpose reels. Great for reelin' in, but limited to trolling or short distance/heavy weight casting. It takes a lot of practice and skill to consistently throw light (<1/4oz) loads a long distance (>30'). Until you're a master, you'll spend more time pickin' out "fluffys" than you'll care to.

I use large spinning reels to throw a >6oz rig 80-90 yards below the dams on the Arkansas River with ease, and can pitch <1/8oz to my hearts content with smaller spinners. Yes, if you're casting every 2-3 minutes all day, a spinner will wear you out, but that doesn't sound like what you do. Heck, I caught my biggest fish (70lb blue cat) on a Zebco 888 spincast with no problems (that I could blame on the reel).

For me, the biggest advantage of a baitcaster is the star drag that you can tweak on the fly with your reeling thumb, saving the movement to adjust a spinning reel drag in a fight.

[Al Agnew]

Okay, here's my opinion after 50 years of using both.

All other things being equal...like if you are equally proficient with both...baitcasting is inherently more efficient. You can cast a properly set up spinning outfit with more distance, but the baitcaster will give you more accuracy AND you can make more casts. Where does this matter most? When you're drifting in a canoe, casting topwaters, crankbaits, or spinnerbaits, you WILL catch more fish if you're using baitcasting tackle (assuming, again, that you're reasonably proficient with baitcasting). If you're fishing from the bank or wading, or you're fishing with slow moving lures while sitting still, or if you're using lures of less than 1/4 ounce, then spinning is "good enough".

[ozarkgunner]

You don't not need "a" baitcaster! You need (I mean need) at least two!

[LarrySTL]

Baitcasting will give you greater accuracy, the ability to use heavy line ( if thats something you may need) and to handle heavier lures, say above 1/2 ounce. Baitcasting reels dont do well with lures below about 3/8 or 1/4 oz, and below 8 or 10 lb mono they are often difficult. There will be a noticable learning curve with a baitcaster til you get past throwing backlashes but newer reels make that less difficult. Once you get past that learning curve, loosening the tension controls on a baitcasting reel will increase your casting distance.

If you want to flip or pitch, which are mostly useful in a lake, baitcasting is a must. If you plan on dragging bigger bass out of nasty cover with any frequency, nothing beats baitcasting.

As Al said, if you want to make a lot of casts, particularly accurate casts between logs, under brush, etc spinning cant touch baitcasting

There are a couple of factors in casting distance but to me the main one is length of the rod, either spinning or casting. When you get to 6' and head toward 7' you will really notice it. But its all a trade off and 7' could be a real pain in a narrow stream, or anyplace with lots of junk overhanging you, 7' could be hard in a canoe and if its sticking out on a float stream, its likely to get a couple feet of it snapped off. Much less so in a pond or lake.

With any given spinning rod, the other big determiner of distance is the diameter of the reel spool, and whether you are keeping it pretty full, almost to the point where it starts throwing lots of loops. If you have a very small spinning reel on anything other than a short ultralite spinning rod, moving to a medium size reel will get you a noticably wider spool, and therefore noticably more distance.

Smaller diameter line gets you distance too with spinning tackle. If you had 10 lb mono spooled and switched to 6...or to braid...or nanofil...you'll get more distance. Obviously there are other limiting things about how light a line you can get away with.

To me and others may differ, there are perfectly functional spinning reels in a range of $40 or $ 50. Most folks throwing baitcasters are probably at $ 75 or more, sometimes way more and I would say the average price folks on here are paying for baitcasters might be $ 125 to $ 150. You can spend $ 300 or more if the budget allows that.

Like lots of people, I use both tho I use them for different things.

[Chief Grey Bear]

my spinning combo certainly isn't high end and the line is just some Stren line.

What is a matter with Stren!!!!!

Anywho, my question is, why longer casts? My dad taught me the longer cast you make, the more time that fish has to get off. And though there is truth in that, I don't always live by it. But for me a long cast is about 50ft.

I would go ahead and get a baitcaster too. My first one was from a yard sale for $10. It is what I learned on. Learned right out in the front yard. I put on a old wore out plug and set the brakes and drag tight. I kept loosening it up as I learned. In about 30 minutes, I had it loose as goose.

As far as the accuracy, I could and can fish a spinning just as good as anyone could a baitcaster. It is the fisherman than controls the accruacy. The only thing I couldn't do very well was get under very low hanging limbs, less than 10 inches off the water, as well as a baitcaster.

I still carry both with me at all times. But I will say, I don't use the spinng rod as much as I did.

Pricing?? I have never given more than $30 for a baitcasting reel. Most have been reconditioned coming from BPS. The ones I am using now I have had for about 4-5 years now. I am about ready to a replacement program on them though. Nothing wrong with them, just getting bored with them.

[Feathers and Fins]

100% +1

I have some "bass" baitcasters (ABU) and some "real" baitcasters (Penn), and for me, they're all special purpose reels. Great for reelin' in, but limited to trolling or short distance/heavy weight casting. It takes a lot of practice and skill to consistently throw light (<1/4oz) loads a long distance (>30'). Until you're a master, you'll spend more time pickin' out "fluffys" than you'll care to.

LOL Just made me think of chasing Yellowtail around Catalina Island as a kid, we would get on the bow of the boat with 8ft rods and Jigmaster reels and when we got within 100ft of the fast moving schools would throw little 3 to 5'' anchovies in front of the school. The boat captains and our parents would take bets from any fool who would bet against them that " those kids" couldnt make the throw and hook up. They made a lot of money because people thought it was impossible let alone for 8 to 12 year old kids to do it.

Truth be told its a matter of a good lob, with great feeling on your thumb to play out the line as you cast, takes practice but you can be very accurate with super light baits and the best thing was when you hooked on you have the power to fight those 20 to 40lb fish. Great memories.

[Wayne SW/MO]

What is a matter with Stren!!!!!

Nothing, other than it sucks!

It's the one mono that I have always had problems with and I gave up on it 30 years ago. If I was going to go with an older model it would be Trilene XL, for spinning, or XT on a baitcaster. I know it has it's followers, but I'm not one of them.

It does come down to the thumb when all is said and done. Educating the thumb and learning to adjust the reel is most of the battle.

[jdmidwest]

Al, what baitcast rig do you recommend?

I have not used anything but spinning gear in my entire life. Other than fly fishing. I use the shimano's with the quick fire system and never have a problem with covering water while in a yak or canoe floating along. But, I have entertained the though of the baitcast system. But it was for boat fishing in lakes and casting worms and other soft plastics. I am also tempted to get one for fishing tubes out of a boat on the streams.

Interesting thread, lets hear some more thoughts on the matter.

[Al Agnew]

Funny, JD, tubes are one of the few things I almost never use a baitcaster with!

It all depends on how much you want to spend, but right now, I'd say the Shimanos are as good as any. I haven't used any Shimano cheaper than the Citica for a few years, so I don't know if whatever they have that's cheaper is good, but the Citicas and Curados are well worth the price. The old Curados are still some of my favorite reels (the old green ones that I don't think had a letter behind them, just a number). The new Curado Ds (D6 and D7) and the Citica D6 are the newest reels I've gotten, and so far I'm happy with them, but I still use the old Curados...those things are practically indestructible.

I'm afraid that some people, even people who use baitcasters, have a slightly flawed conception of them. With the proper rod (and that's important) a good baitcaster can EASILY handle 1/4 ounce lures and 3/16 ounce compact lures like jigs. With the proper rod, a good baitcaster in the hands of somebody with experience can handle 1/8th ounce jigs as good as you'd need to. Good baitcasters with the kind of close tolerances between the spool and housing that is common these days can handle lines as light as 6 pound mono. I use nothing but 8 pound mono or co-poly on my river reels. There is NO lure I ever use for stream smallmouth fishing that I can't cast with my baitcasters.

Now, what about that "proper rod" thing? Therein lies the rub. It is practically impossible to find a baitcasting rod that's a lighter power than medium these days, and if you do find one it's probably going to be 7 feet long or more. We had a discussion just recently about looking for the best short rod to cast 1/8 ounce hair jigs. I found a couple, but I had to go to specialty rod companies displaying at the Bassmaster Classic to do so. To cast light lures well, you need lighter power rods that will load with the weight of those light lures. You don't need nor want to go lighter than medium light, and actually some of the less expensive medium power rods are limber enough to load with a 1/8 ounce lure. But you CAN'T cast those light lures well with a medium heavy or heavy rod, no matter how good your reel is.

If you are just starting out with a baitcasting outfit, be sure to get a reel model that has the handle on the correct side for you. If you cast with your right arm, get one with the reel handle on the left side! That will give you the most efficient and versatile ways of casting. Those of us who learned to cast with them long ago learned when ALL of them, for some strange reason, had the handle on the right side of the reel, which meant that if we were right handed, we had to cast and then switch hands to reel. I STILL find that reeling a baitcaster with my left hand on the reel handle feels awkward. I got around the problem many years ago by teaching myself to cast with my left arm, and now I can cast just as well with either arm, but I just can't get used to reeling with my left hand.

A lot of other people got around the old left/right thing by casting two handed. If you are right handed, you hold the rod and reel with the reel in your left palm. You cast by putting your right hand on the rod handle, with your right thumb on the reel spool, while still holding the reel in your left palm. Make the cast, and at the end of it your right hand leaves the rod handle and goes to the reel handle to start the retrieve.

Being old school as I am, and also rather small-handed, I could never get comfortable with palming the reel. And even though most reels these days are rounded on the side to fit a palm better, it still doesn't seem to me to be the most ergonomic thing you can do.

So picture this...I'm holding the rod in my left hand. I click the free spool button with my left thumb, which automatically puts my thumb also on the spool. I make the cast. My right hand goes to the reel handle and I turn it to start the retrieve. That's it. Three movements to make the cast and start the retrieve.

Now look at a spinning reel motion. I'm holding the rod in my right hand. My right index finger goes to the line to pick it up. That's one movement. Often, I have to move the reel handle to make the line come around to my index finger. That's two. I flip the bail. That's three. I make the cast. That's four. I either flip the bail closed by hand, or turn the reel handle to close it. That's five. If I don't want to get loose line that causes tangles on the next cast, I grab the line and pull on it before actually starting the retrieve, or lift the rod tip to get that loose line out. That's six. Four movements minimum, six maximum, compared to three movements maximum with the casting rod. See why I'm more efficient at making lots of casts during the day than ANY spinning reel angler I've ever fished with?

[rps]

As always, Al's analysis is excellent. While I throw two handed, it is with my right thumb on the spool and my left on the very butt end of the rod. When the bait lands, I switch my left hand to palm the reel and crank with my right. The process is muscle memory and not conscious thought. The two hand comes from the fact I learned to throw lures before I was very strong.

While Al is spot on about the old Curado green reels without a letter, I urge you to consider NOT buying the Curado E. I had two self destruct at 13 to 15 months. An ABU Revo STX or Premier will be the modern equivalent of the Curado. I also own, enjoy, and suggest the modern Lews Tournament Pro.

As far as the light rod dilemma, I solved that by making my own 6' medium power on a St. Criox blank - spiral wrapped Recoil micro guides. I fish my Top Dollars (3/8 ounce) on it and it doubles as my rod for throwing 1/8th ounce road runners for walleye.