Jacks Fork Trip Report May 17-19Th

[Wayne SW/MO]

I don't see any value in licensing when it comes to paddle craft. I think there is a lot of value in limiting the number of craft either by permit or by limiting outfitters and how many canoes they can rent in any one day. Much of the activity that keeps families with children off the rivers is already illegal and much of it occurs because they hide in a crowd.

Like CWF says, the difference between the 70's and 80's and today is stark.

The number of canoes starting down the Niangua at around 10 AM on Saturday is crazy! On a trip a couple of years ago I was guarding the jon while waiting for the shuttle I counted 50 ralts stacked up. If you think about that, this is one outfitter, with a ton of canoes that also has that many rafts to put on the 8 mile stretch of river that most all of them use,

I've heard the number 500 thrown around as a figure for the number of canoes on the river at one time. I don't if it's accurate, but it pops up a lot.

[cnr]

I stand corrected, I did not know this was a requirement. Too bad they don't remove the date limitations and make it mandatory for all.

If they were born after Jan 1 1984 they do have to take a class (online). Wouldn't take much to expand it to canoeing and kayaking, but I am sure that would piss off someone.

The Missouri Boater Certification Card (also referred to as the Missouri boating license) is proof that a boater has taken and passed an approved boater education course. The Missouri State Water Patrol currently has a mandatory boater education requirement that requires all boaters born on or after January 1, 1984 who operate a powered vessel to have the Missouri boating license on board when the vessel is underway to satisfy the Missouri boating regulations.

http://www.boaterexam.com/usa/missouri/regulations.aspx

[steve l]

I was able to float the upper JF in July 10 years ago or so after like 5 or 6 inches of rain up there. My son & I took out Saturday morning rough 8:00 to 8:30 or so Saturday morning at Alley. I stopped counting (with plenty to go) 200 canoes lined up on the gravel with folk (ok, 20ish year old guys) already being jerks. Yeah, that would be pretty awful.

I doubt anyone in this thread disagrees much with the outcome if they could set the rules, but alas we're all just tilting at windmills.

[Al Agnew]

Back in the 1980s, there were a lot of rental canoes on the middle Meramec on summer weekends, but not like it is now. Not only are there more canoes, but rafts have gotten very popular and so have kayaks. And the thing that has changed the most is that the people using the rivers have simply gotten far more obnoxious. There was a lot of pot smoking on the water in the 1970s and 1980s, until law enforcement began to crack down on it, but maybe pot smokers were too laid back to be as obnoxious as the river dorks are now.

I don't think licensing floaters is feasible, though in some ways it would be a good idea. Having a permit system to float a river like the Jacks Fork would be a little more feasible, but to do it right would put some of the canoe liveries out of business and that ain't gonna happen any time soon. Cutting down on the number of rental canoes that can be put in at a given access would also make the canoe liveries kick and scream, and the Park Service pretty much walks on eggshells around the local people and politicians, anyway, so I doubt that they'd have the guts to do it.

So I don't know what else to suggest. It looks like warm weather weekends when there is enough water are "reserved" for the hordes of river dorks on the Jacks Fork.

[countryred]

No perfect answer. Would the permits limit the number of people due to price? I doubt it, they are already spending big $$ just driving down from the big city. Would it be safer? Don't know, common sense can't be taught. Some people do need some pointers though.

Limiting numbers per day, hard to do and enforce. It would raise the price per float I am sure, but it would be unfair for the ones who have their own rigs.

I grew up a country kid, not all that fond of big crowds. Whats funny though , is that some of the folks out of the Big cities get there with 200 plus canoes around them wall to wall and think of it as normal.

I used to fish Lake of the Ozarks all the time but after mid May until after Labor day it wasnt worth it. Too many lake dorks, making big waves and causing trouble.

I agree Al,....the river dorks spoil it for all of us.

[mjcoussens]

I end up doing a couple of trips to Northern Michigan every year and have seen some pretty good examples of the canoe liveries working with the general public to create a better experience for everyone. Some of the common examples I've run across are:

-limiting the amount of alcohol allowed on the trips to a 6 pack per person or craft

-No kegs, no glas, no Styrofoam.

-no portable radios

-limiting the number of large groups

-Ensuring that every craft goes out with a mesh orange bag for trash

-and most importantly to wading fisherman -educating all canoeists to navigate behind, not in front of them.

Penrods on the Au Sable lists a few good examples. http://www.penrodscanoe.com/canoe.html

These rules aren't limited to just one livery on one river. I've seen the same on the Manistee, Jordan, Pine, etc.

In a perfect world, I would like to see these same courtesies extended to the Ozark rivers and I think it needs to start with the liveries after all they are running the shuttles, loading the vans, etc. They may lose a customer here or there, but I guarantee that I or another like minded person looking for a quality experience will be right there to fill that loss.

I have a 1 year old son that I'd love to be able to take out on the river, but frankly the thought terrifies me. The behavior I see precludes the use of the rivers as a family environment and should not be tolerated. Sure, the week days present an entirely different river, but that's not an option for most of us.

I'm a weekend warrior just like everyone else. The rivers belong to all of us, and with cooperation can be enjoyed by all equally.

Just the thoughts of a lurker.

[Wayne SW/MO]

Rules and limitations aren't unusual in many parts of the country. Many areas in the west require a toilet to do an overnight. Other rivers have limited access and a permit, obtained through a draw, to float them. The powers that be in the Missouri DNR should have to float the Niangua every Saturday morning in July starting at 10 AM.

The problem I have with jets is the damage they do to the shoreline. Rivers naturally form their banks to accept current flowing down stream. When a jet goes upstream and sends waves in an unnatural direction it washes out the back side of rocks, gravel and rootwads and they end up in the river and no longer protect and maintain the banks.

[The Troutdoorsman]

Like so many other things in life the rules to keep things in order are already in place and just need to be enforced. http://www.nps.gov/ozar/parkmgmt/rowdiness.htm

If their were rangers doing serious checks at all the popular put ins, on the rivers we love, the bad elements would go away. Nobody, especially those not in compliance likes to be checked. The resources are there at both the state and national level since the Jacks Fork does fall under the feds.

I say let the partiers have the Black river out of Lesterville, the Huzzah south of Steelville and the lower Current near Van Buren. No fisherman in his right mind would go there to catch, on a weekend anyway. Rigorously patrol and write citations, open up coolers and just be a presences on the JF, Upper current, upper North Fork, and 11 pt especially at the put ins and word will get out. Let the drunks and such go to the other places and everybody is happy.

As for the respectful fisherman and families, well God bless them. This thread was started by a report stating that the floaters encountered were polite and respect, albeit numerous. While this does disturb our serenity it does have a benefit.Some of my favorite accesses have come in to being due to the Sport Fish Restoration Act. Which is funded by the sell of fishing products (among other things). http://wsfrprograms.fws.gov/Subpages/GrantPrograms/SFR/SFR_Act.htm. Most if not all of us have benefited by decent and respectful fishing and outdoors people spending money. Missouri is a state that is replacing it's hunters and fisherman, while other states are in budget crisises as hunters and fisherman die off and aren't replaced/ not buying licenses or spending money.

I think we can do something. Show up at public town hall meetings (they happen all the time in the national forest area). Write letters and put presure to patrol our favorite fishing put ins. The undesirables will soon leave. On the otherhand teach a youngester to fish or help a newbie get excited about the sport and maybe the funding will be there to protect, patrol and preserve more areas at an even greater level.

[Al Agnew]

That's true, except the river dorks don't fish, and probably don't ever buy a license.

As for having lots of anglers to pay in more money, it's always a double-edged sword, and especially on small streams like the Jacks Fork. Having one or two GOOD anglers in front of you on a float trip almost always reduces your own fishing success on a stream where those one or two anglers are going to be fishing EVERY spot you would fish. But on the other hand, the more caring and ethical anglers there are, the greater the voice we have in trying to protect fisheries.

[Gavin]

You get what you get on a float..Lead is great, middle...fish your second choices or it will suck unless your back 10 minutes.....Dragline can be almost as good as lead if they lay back 20 or so. Trading lead at regular intervals is a good thing.