15 Vs 16 Ft Old Town

[Nightbrew]

Need opinions guys. I have been looking for a new canoe for a while now and have been looking at alot of internet info. I would like to find a buffalo 16 but those arent showing up much nowadays. I have decided through research that the old town camper model is very similar to the buffalo according to specs. However the camper is available in a 15 or 16 foot model. Use will consist of 85-90% solo fly fishing while standing on local rivers and creeks. The remaining % I will take the wife on short runs to swim, picnic etc. I feel the 15 would be easier to manage solo, but I wonder if I would lose some stability due to less area making contact with the water. Or there may not be enough difference to tell. Any thoughts?

[fishinwrench]

If stability at drifting speed is important look at the OT Guide series. I have had a 147 for years and while it's a bit heavy (compared to the Royalex models) and not a great tandem for 2 big boys it is a solid craft and paddles well solo.

I can't even count how many miles mine has floated, and been dragged across rocks.

In my mind OT only makes 3 styles of canoes, Guide, Disco, and Penob. the others are pretty much in-betweens that are not any improvement over their closest of the big 3

[Old plug]

Only canoe I ever had was a 18 ft semi freighter they called the camper model. I think alumna craft made it. I do not think I could have ever been comfortable in a small canoe.

[Al Agnew]

Both the 15 and the 16 have the same width at waterline, 35.5 inches, so there wouldn't be a whole lot of difference in the primary stability. Ordinarily a longer canoe is better than a shorter one because it's faster, you can stow rods in it easier, and it's less likely that you'll hook your partner on a backcast. But if you're planning on using it mostly solo, the 15 would probably be a better choice.

I don't particularly like Campers, mainly because of the shape of the ends, which are high and curved backward. They catch more wind, get in the way of low sidearm casts, and give you a few less inches of stowage for your rods. But overall they are decent canoes. Personally, I'd opt for a Camper over a Guide because the Camper is lighter and narrower. I'm willing to give up a bit of primary stability to have a little faster canoe that you can more easily paddle solo from near the center. And if you use the Guide solo, you'll have to do a lot of modification, because the seats are those molded ones with backs that you can't use backward. Your ideal solo paddling position in the Guide would be to turn it around backward and have the front seat set back (closer to the center) about 6 inches. This would entail replacing the factory seat with a bench seat, and also could possibly entail moving the center thwart, depending upon how much leg room you had left. The factory seat position of the front seat is usable, but would still mean replacing it with a bench seat if you want to turn the canoe around backwards and paddle it (and that's really your only good option...trying to solo paddle a canoe like that from the rear seat is extremely inefficient).

As for the Camper, I think you'd be okay with the Camper 15 with the front seat where it is. It appears to be set back toward the center a bit more than on the Guide.

On the other hand...if standing all the time fly fishing is that important to you, and you're willing to do the modifications I mentioned, and you're willing to put up with the 76 pound weight, the Guide might be the better choice. It will definitely be more stable to stand in. And it's a lot cheaper, so you can afford to replace the seat!

[Nightbrew]

Al, you really think the guide would be more stable standing? I have concerns about the shallow arch bottom. I dont know if i have ever paddled one out of memory but dont they tend to wobble more, before the secondary stability kicks in? My unfortunate position is that there is no dealer locally, so I can not easily demo one. Thanks

[Chief Grey Bear]

Ya know, a couple of years ago I requested a forum where we could post info on canoes and yaks. Al has over the years posted great info as well as others. From questions like this to repairs, to you name it. There has been volumns of great advice posted here. But alas we got forums for Deadliest Catch and Pond fishing.

[Nightbrew]

Chief, that forum would be great. Everyone has their own budget, but I just want to make sure I use my money as wisely as possible. Anyone have experience with stability standing with both shallow arch and flat bottom hull designs. I just assumed due to research I've done that the flat bottom is best for I want to do. thanks

[fishinwrench]

Here's the seat mod I did on my Guide, I strap a sit-backer to it and it's pretty comfy. Made from an old paddle shaft and some ash strips, no thwart moving required.

[Justin Spencer]

Need opinions guys. I have been looking for a new canoe for a while now and have been looking at alot of internet info. I would like to find a buffalo 16 but those arent showing up much nowadays. I have decided through research that the old town camper model is very similar to the buffalo according to specs. However the camper is available in a 15 or 16 foot model. Use will consist of 85-90% solo fly fishing while standing on local rivers and creeks. The remaining % I will take the wife on short runs to swim, picnic etc. I feel the 15 would be easier to manage solo, but I wonder if I would lose some stability due to less area making contact with the water. Or there may not be enough difference to tell. Any thoughts?

I got some buffalos I'll let go for $75 bucks, not the best but probably won't leak.

[Al Agnew]

In a canoe as wide as the Guide, the shallow arch bottom is really pretty close to flat in the center. I think it would have a little more primary stability than the Camper...however, in looking back at the specs, the waterline width is only a half inch wider than the Camper; I thought it was a little wider than that. With that in mind, I doubt that the Guide has much of an advantage in primary stability. I do like the lower ends on the Guide better than the Camper...and a lot better than the Buffalo, which has really high ends. The Buffalo is considerably heavier than the Camper, close to the same weight as the Guide. So I guess it all boils down to how much you want to pay and how important light weight is to you. Of the three canoes, I think the Camper would be the best design for a canoe used mostly solo, but the Guide certainly has some appeal.

It's too bad that there are so few good canoe shops where you could test paddle. The Alpine Shop in St. Louis has frequent demo days in the summer on Creve Coeur Lake, but I'm not sure they even have any Old Town canoes in stock. Many years ago when I was first "graduating" from an aluminum canoe, there was a shop in St. Charles that allowed you to test paddle any canoe they had in stock. It was very helpful in picking a good canoe. Now, there aren't enough canoes being sold to keep a large variety in stock anywhere, it's all kayaks. When I was last in the Alpine Shop, they had two canoes and a dozen or more kayaks on the showroom floor. I ordered a new Vagabond and the FACTORY had to make one to fill the order.