Meramec River Shooting

[Terrierman]

I recently took a float trip on the Snake River in Wyoming. The State of Missouri could learn a lot from the State of Wyoming on how to deal with outfitters and their customers on popular rivers. Suffice to say it is not an unregulated free for all in Wyoming. Decent accesses with different areas set aside for outfitters and the general public, bathrooms at accesses and a completely different atmosphere there vs. here. Much more "professional" if that makes sense.

[Justin Spencer]

Boy am I feeling the love!

Most things you are asking of outfitters are not expected in other businesses. If I rent a car is the rental company responsible for my actions just because I rented a car from them? If I rent a backhoe and go dig up your yard is the rental company responsible. I provide a service to people and most are respectful and cause no problems. Some do, I can't profile people and not rent to them because they have a mustache or tattoos, or are Asian, or black, or stupid. I sign a permit with our wonderful government that states I cannot discriminate. I have turned people away that are being disrespectful, or are already messed up, and have blacklisted many others that I no longer will rent to.

It's not worth my time to argue this because I understand wanting the river to yourself, when I float I always see very few people and love it, but the river should be open to anyone, and in the summertime the primary use is not for fishing.

Leave it to law enforcement to decide what is and isn't allowed, how can I be responsible for someone peeing in a yard? Some of your comments are just plain dumb.

I know there are some bad outfitters out there, but even they don't want problems to happen on the river because that hurts the industry as a whole. I'd love to make a living off of big groups that don't drink and sing church songs down the river while picking up trash, healing the wounds of gigged smallmouth, and crapping in ziplock bags to take home with them, but that ain't gonna happen.

[Lancer09]

Leave it to law enforcement to decide what is and isn't allowed, how can I be responsible for someone peeing in a yard? Some of your comments are just plain dumb.

Like.

[1969Larson]

I'd love to make a living off of big groups that don't drink and sing church songs down the river while picking up trash, healing the wounds of gigged smallmouth, and crapping in ziplock bags to take home with them, but that ain't gonna happen.

This is not the time or place for a joke, but come on... That's funny right there!

[Feathers and Fins]

Actually Justin, there is a responsibility, A person who rents either of the two examples must have insurance for any damages they might do. Can the provider be held Liable? Possibly, but unlikely! I could see a good lawyer or shady I should say that like a Bar Owner you could be responsible as you had reasonable suspicions they would be drinking especially if you witnessed it or saw them loading the beer.

The other thing is the Littering it cost money to clean up even if its "just" a land owner or the property damage that drunks could do. This is really one you don't want going to court I really believe the floaters would lose and lose big. Yes Law Enforcement ( ive said it many times on here) needs to be out in force and lay into these people hard. But if LEO's start heavy handed enforcement that too will cut in to your business when word gets out.

This is a situation that for no other reason than human stupidity does not have any good outcomes for anyone.

[Justin Spencer]

Actually Justin, there is a responsibility, A person who rents either of the two examples must have insurance for any damages they might do. Can the provider be held Liable? Possibly, but unlikely! I could see a good lawyer or shady I should say that like a Bar Owner you could be responsible as you had reasonable suspicions they would be drinking especially if you witnessed it or saw them loading the beer.

The other thing is the Littering it cost money to clean up even if its "just" a land owner or the property damage that drunks could do. This is really one you don't want going to court I really believe the floaters would lose and lose big. Yes Law Enforcement ( ive said it many times on here) needs to be out in force and lay into these people hard. But if LEO's start heavy handed enforcement that too will cut in to your business when word gets out.

This is a situation that for no other reason than human stupidity does not have any good outcomes for anyone.

They are doing nothing illegal by drinking on the river though, so me seeing them doing something legal doesn't scare me.

As for littering I have to clean up trash on my gravel bar from time to time and it usually takes all of about 5 minutes to do it, plus I get to be right next to the river, so while I would rather not have to do it, it isn't a big deal at all and if I paid someone $10 an hour to do it, it would cost me about 83 cents every time someone had to do it.

Last weekend our river had a saturation by water patrol and 7 underage kids staying here were ticketed. I'm all for it as it might help get rid of the real problem people if they see them out there from time to time. Most of my customers don't need to worry about getting in trouble.

[exiledguide]

If we want to stop a lot of these problems we could ban alcohol in all boats unless they have a kitchen, head ,sleeping areas. like they do in NW Ontario. It hasn't seemed to hurt the tourist, fishing business up there.

[405z06]

If we want to stop a lot of these problems we could ban alcohol in all boats unless they have a kitchen, head ,sleeping areas. like they do in NW Ontario. It hasn't seemed to hurt the tourist, fishing business up there.

we should just ban everyone in a tube, canoe, raft, or jetboat. Then we can just let the meth-billlies use the river for a place to dispose of old tires, autos, and farm equipment.

My favorite part of the story is when the shooter was asked why he didn't call the authorities, he said (and I am paraphrasing) "they woulda been gone by the time they got there". The officer asked: "Isn't that what you wanted, for them to leave?" Crocker was like: "Yeah, I guess that woulda worked, too".

That and the whole "I just shot the guy closest to me" comment leads me to believe the jury will have a guilty verdict within 30 minutes.

I am just speculating here, but my guess is Mr Crocker has spent many a day sitting on his property on a Saturday afternoon just-a-waitin' to confront him some trespassers. F him.

[woodman]

I heard this for the first time today on the radio......This might explain why he stood between the 2 men...He was an ex Vet...

Army vet is shot dead in front of wife after relative enrages landowner by urinating on his river bank during family rafting trip.....http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2375208/James-Robert-Crocker-charged-Army-veteran-shot-dead-family-cousin-enrages-landowner-urinating-gravel-bar-annual-floating-trip.html

[Wayne SW/MO]

Given the record of stream management in Missouri I don't think I would want the legislature to address it, no matter which party has a majority.

There's a standard case that many states, at least in the east, follow, but Missouri is not one that has adopted it. Sorry I can't remember the official name and don't care to look for it.

We have a loose normal high water access grant that seems to work. One nut does not change that. It's hard to speculate on what the overall atmosphere was at the confrontation, but clearly deadly force wasn't needed and it sounds as if the shooter wasn't wrapped real tight.