$60 Trillion Trouble

[KCRIVERRAT]

Again... but a different river. Trophy smallies from Cedar Grove to Two Rivers. No jets from Powder Mill up. Ah...I love global warming.

And my wife love's my tan lines...

[knuck]

I get it, read many of Justins posts, he's passionate about his views.

It is totally understandable why so many people get riled up over enviromental issues when a good portion of people won't even recognize obvious problems, dismiss science as some fabricated science fiction stories and keep their heads firmly planted.(Reference to a bird mentioned earlier in this post) There is a lot of good happening year in and year out by conservation minded groups from all over the planet that work and sometimes fight court battles to save entire ecosystems right down to an individual species. I just get aggravated by people that feel the need to brand these planet loving people as tree hugging extremists.

We should focus on what we can fix and work to prevent future enviromental disasters before they occur. We need to hold corporations accountable, they reap their profits and leave enviromental disasters in their wake. I could fill pages with companies that have dissapeared and left their messes for "We the people" Uncle Sam" whatever you want to call the American taxpayer. I happen to live in Saint Louis and we currently have several sites in the greater STL area dealing with radioactive material In groundwater and another location where a former landfill is contaminated with radioactive material and has an underground fire in a different, newer section of the landfill. The current owner, EPA and Missouri Dept of Natural Resources are scrambling to create a barrier between the two areas so the fire does not reach the radioactive material. There are rarely answers when the powers that be are asked what would happen if the fire spreads to the radioactive material. We worry about terrorists creating dirty bombs, shoot its possible we might do it to ourselves first. Actually we already have, Hanover in Washington state, Monsanto in S Carolina, mining tailings all over the country(short list).

Corporate America lines their pockets and create 100's if not 1000's of millionaires and provide work for the middle class but at what cost. This country hands over mineral, timber, oil & gas rights and then more often than not we are told its our responsibility to clean up the messes left behind.

This is a pretty cynical view and things are probably getting better in our USA but not because of corporate responsibility, its because the EPA & public outrage force the issue. We might be getting better at cleaning up after ourselves but China is a whole other story.

Knuck in STL

[Mitch f]

Things are getting better, maybe not enough to suit some, but they are getting better. However no matter what we do India and China will take decades to conform. I don't have much faith in anything fixing the problem though.

[Old plug]

I hope your right Mitch. But i would not bet on anything all the countries keep provoking one anther. This whole polar race thing has already started and it has not even melted. I seen on TV this morning where Russia has sent a robot sub under the ice to the north pole and planted a flag. There is also countries from all over the world getting ready to go in there and grab the natural resources. All this sounds like the makings of a world conflict. Of course by that time we will be much smaller nation. A lot of our coastal regions will be gone. But I believe something else will get us first. I just hope it is fast. THIS IS A TERRIBLE POST AND I HOPE NONE IF IT HAPPENS. But

[Al Agnew]

Just finished reading the Jared Diamond book, "Collapse, How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed". Read it if you want a pretty clear picture of what we're doing wrong (and some things we're doing right) to keep this society going, and how it might not matter given what other societies are doing. Between China, India, and other developing countries, they have two or three billion people who are wanting the kind of life we have here in America, which means using the quantities of resources we use in America. When you think about that, you REALLY get depressed.

[Old plug]

That is exactly it Al.

[jeb]

The point is that GW adds considerably to the national debt...as in the original post. Ignoring it adds to the national debt, and that's the least of the problems associated with that.

The original post is just another chicken little story about what could happen if all the dire predictions from all the failed computer models come true. They are simply scare tactics to keep the research money flowing, IMO.

We lost over 500 homes in Colorado this year due to drought and fire...so far. We're adding fire protection services at tax payer expense and the insurance companies are that much closer to the line.

Fires have always happened. Trying to prevent them from occuring as they naturally do makes them worse when they do happen. I was at Yellowstone a couple of years ago and it's a tragedy waiting to happen with all the dead timber left to lay there and rot. Park guides said the same thing. But the enviro-whackos insist it not be disturbed. I'm sure they'll all be wringing their hands the next time it burns, telling us we caused it.

So tell us, what is you are doing to combat this supposed train wreck from happening? This is not a problem, if you buy into the whole religion, where turning off lights in rooms not being used or driving to the store once a month less often is going to help at all. Heck, even the economy killing Koyoto agreement was only predicted to have a miniscual impact, and you know they were even over selling that. This is an uplug from the grid, live in a cave kind of thing. You think anyone is going to go for that? It's all fun and games for the gullible public when it's abstract. "Oh, I heard on the news we're all going to melt and die. We have to do SOMETHING about it!!! Let's blame those evil companies (but not the one giving me a paycheck, of course)!!" But try and tell them you're only going to allow them 2 hours a day of electricity or that the govt now controls their thermostat and how many miles a year they get to drive and see what they say.

[Old plug]

JEb---something will happen. I guarantee it. We may not live to see it but it will happen. NEVER has man gone without war and Never has the planet gone without some sort of world wide natural disaster. Just goes in cycles.

[Justin Spencer]

The original post is just another chicken little story about what could happen if all the dire predictions from all the failed computer models come true. They are simply scare tactics to keep the research money flowing, IMO.

Fires have always happened. Trying to prevent them from occuring as they naturally do makes them worse when they do happen. I was at Yellowstone a couple of years ago and it's a tragedy waiting to happen with all the dead timber left to lay there and rot. Park guides said the same thing. But the enviro-whackos insist it not be disturbed. I'm sure they'll all be wringing their hands the next time it burns, telling us we caused it.

So tell us, what is you are doing to combat this supposed train wreck from happening? This is not a problem, if you buy into the whole religion, where turning off lights in rooms not being used or driving to the store once a month less often is going to help at all. Heck, even the economy killing Koyoto agreement was only predicted to have a miniscual impact, and you know they were even over selling that. This is an uplug from the grid, live in a cave kind of thing. You think anyone is going to go for that? It's all fun and games for the gullible public when it's abstract. "Oh, I heard on the news we're all going to melt and die. We have to do SOMETHING about it!!! Let's blame those evil companies (but not the one giving me a paycheck, of course)!!" But try and tell them you're only going to allow them 2 hours a day of electricity or that the govt now controls their thermostat and how many miles a year they get to drive and see what they say.

you are right Jeb, most of the models have failed, they are predicting much slower change than is actually happening.

I don't blame any companies, I blame the ability to get cheap fuel and electricity. When these prices go up we will find cleaner ways to do things, and we will waste less energy if we are thinking about what it will do to our pocket book.

[gotmuddy]

JEb---something will happen. I guarantee it. We may not live to see it but it will happen. NEVER has man gone without war and Never has the planet gone without some sort of world wide natural disaster. Just goes in cycles.

using your logic then we have no bearing on what happens because it has always happened.