Oh Brother, They Shut The Web Down Too....

[1969Larson]

I share your skepticism Larry, and it's not just the 906 pages of bill text. Like most laws, there are hundreds more pages of existing laws that are either partially incorporated or modified by reference in the Act. To fully grok the big picture, one needs to read and understand all that too.

My job in commercial mechanical construction requires me to spend several hours daily searching, reading, inerpreting, and applying engineering specifications and building, mechanical, and electrical codes, so it's not a big jump for me to read law occasionally. I've tried to read the ACA repeatedly, but lost interest after only a few pages every time.

But that doesn't mean that the ACA is is unusually long or complex. The spec book for the construction of a new VA clinical addition we just completed was almost 2,000 pages, and it incorporated other codes by reference that exceeded 10,000 pages in the aggregate. It was a huge effort to ensure the details buried in those codes were all incorporated in construction, but each and every one was necessary to the safe and efficient function of a modern hospital. None of the codes that applied were written specifically for that job, they originated back in the '70s, and have been continuously updated and modified to this day. When first enacted, there was a huge industry resistance, and there are still a few die-hards that spout "we don't need no stinking codes". Fortunately, those guys aren't building hospitals.

That is actually an excellent example... especially since the building codes you refer to are adopted by each State or municipality and it is up to them to decide what version of the code to adopt, weather or not to amend it, and when to enforce it. It actually works pretty well this way, managed by the States. If the Federal Government were to create a Federal Mechanical Code, then every job you work on would have the type of requirements that VA Hospitals do.

As to your last sentence, you couldn't be further from the truth. I just hate to see our healthcare go down the road of the USPS and Social Security. A law for "affordable healthcare?" I'd rather support a national law for "affordable new trucks." There is a nice Super Duty out there I would love to have. Wouldn't cheaper trucks or boats or houses, or whatever mean we have more money for our healthcare? Surely somebody can spin that into a law.

[SpoonDog]

Ok think about this one.

The Federal Government Employees WILL as soon as the shut down is over get their pay retroactively!

So the government will pay them as soon as the politicians can stop arguing. So why not keep the people working? I mean it sure must be nice to get time off and get paid for it all so your bosses can increase their credit card limit.

Retroactively being the operative term. In the meantime there's still rent, still house payments, still car payments, still utilities, etc. The costs are still there, but the revenue stream has dried up. Personally, I don't think it'd be nice getting time off without knowing when I'll be back at work, watching as bills pile up- it'd make me a little anxious.

[Feathers and Fins]

I would love to see the government institute a national building code law, it wouldn't be hard just simply require all building to meet "international building code latest version" talk about something that would do nothing but benefit everyone. Second require all contractors to be licensed for the trades they practice. I know I know off topic but as a builder I hate seeing sub-standard or _ _ _ _ _ _ rigged jobs. Nothing makes me madder than seeing sub standard work that cost the client more money down the road to repair what could and should have been done right the first time!

On and I so am behind lower cost trucks and boats sign me the hell up now lol.

[Justin Spencer]

Glad they have furloughed some military, and I agree we have to keep our essential defenses in place, but our military technology means we don.t need 100,000 boots on the ground to protect us on a daily basis, call them back if needed. I too think this has been a good eye opener, but it will be business as usual when they get back to it, because for the politicians it will still be all about the Benjamins.

And Larson, I doubt even a single tea party member would agree with you on needing nothing from the government but the military.

[Feathers and Fins]

Spoon, I could agree with you but its hard for me to based off being in construction all my life. I learned early on to put aside a minimum of 3 months worth of bills and then 10% above that number monthly for still enjoying life. So when people tell me they still have all those things I look at wonder if they understand the basic old saying of rainy day savings.

It just something I do not have much sympathy for. I was a single father that worked went to school and still had bills to pay and all the other things and still managed to find time to work enough to save those 3 months and pay all my bills and still spend time with the rug rat. I am not saying it is easy but I also see no reason it cannot be done if someone has the will to. Its not fathomable to me to understand why people would rather spend money on toys and playing before they had a cushion in case of unforeseen emergency.

[hank franklin]

I would love to see the government institute a national building code law, it wouldn't be hard just simply require all building to meet "international building code latest version" talk about something that would do nothing but benefit everyone. Second require all contractors to be licensed for the trades they practice. I know I know off topic but as a builder I hate seeing sub-standard or _ _ _ _ _ _ rigged jobs. Nothing makes me madder than seeing sub standard work that cost the client more money down the road to repair what could and should have been done right the first time!

I'm sorry to jump in here but think about what you're saying here.

1. A national (i. e. federal) building code? Really? Talk about government overreach. Wow.

2. Your idea would be to protect against substandard work via a national code. I don't like substandard work either. But you get what you pay for. You want quality work, hire a quality contractor. You want substandard work, hire a weekender with a sign on his truck. If you insert the federal government into this the nanny state just grows infinitely more bloated. You think a farmer in Osage County is going to follow IBC 2009 when putting up a pole barn? Who exactly is going to inspect for this?

Just sayin.

[bfishn]

That is actually an excellent example... especially since the building codes you refer to are adopted by each State or municipality and it is up to them to decide what version of the code to adopt, weather or not to amend it, and when to enforce it. It actually works pretty well this way, managed by the States. If the Federal Government were to create a Federal Mechanical Code, then every job you work on would have the type of requirements that VA Hospitals do.

Actually, the states have for the most part adopted the International (skipping right over Federal) Building, Mechanical, and Electrical Codes as their basis, adding only a few lines or items of their own as they see fit. Open any Missouri, Arkansas, or Oklahoma code book, it's disclosed in the first page or two. It was a wise move considering many contractors work in multiple jurisdictions. We don't even bother keeping State codes on the shelf anymore, just the International Codes with a few pages of exceptions for each state. Just last month I tested for my mechanical contractor's license in Oklahoma, and carried in the same International Code books for reference that we use in Arkansas.

There's a separate code for residential and commercial too, and each has very specific sections that apply to special applications. For instance, NFPA 99 Chapter 5 specifically covers hospitals, and applies to nothing else. Even it is broken down into 3 levels of detail, one each for surgical, recuperative, and clinical applications.

[Feathers and Fins]

Hank, it is already in effect in several states and building inspectors are required to verify. Arkansas is under 2006 IBC entire state. Granted a homeowner can do as they wish on their land but it forces contractors to do it right. I have been on several cases where improper building was done and the contractor < or his insurance if he was out of business > had to pay for the repairs.

If a inspector misses something and signs off on it and later it is a problem guess who pays for it!

[1969Larson]

Actually, the states have for the most part adopted the International (skipping right over Federal) Building, Mechanical, and Electrical Codes as their basis, adding only a few lines or items of their own as they see fit. Open any Missouri, Arkansas, or Oklahoma code book, it's disclosed in the first page or two. It was a wise move considering many contractors work in multiple jurisdictions. We don't even bother keeping State codes on the shelf anymore, just the International Codes with a few pages of exceptions for each state. Just last month I tested for my mechanical contractor's license in Oklahoma, and carried in the same International Code books for reference that we use in Arkansas.

There's a separate code for residential and commercial too, and each has very specific sections that apply to special applications. For instance, NFPA 99 Chapter 5 specifically covers hospitals, and applies to nothing else. Even it is broken down into 3 levels of detail, one each for surgical, recuperative, and clinical applications.

"International" is just the name. It has nothing to do with jurisdiction. There is also a Uniform Mechanical Code and a National Standard Plumbing Code, The names do not mean anything. The point is that the States CHOOSE to adopt these codes. They are not Federally required to. There are actually quite a few differences in Building Codes from State to State.... most notably in the Building Energy Codes. Try building the same building in California as you do in Oklahoma. Even among different municipalities in California, you could be REQUIRED to install solar panels or electric car chargers, among others. Does the Federal Government know what's best for rural Oklahoma or Osage County? Of course not.

[hank franklin]

Don't get me wrong, I like codes, just don't want to see a federally imposed one. I wouldn't want to see a state-imposed one either. Let the buyer beware. Let the local jurisdictions decide for themselves.

Off-topic of course but a good example. Who would want federally-imposed codes? Bankers and insurers. They would then get to deflect to the local jurisdictions who would be burdened with inspections. Yeah they can charge a good permit fee but the price of building just went up, for everyone. All to basically satisfy the bankers, insurers and the big ol federal gov't.

Oh wait...maybe it's not off-topic.