Ninnescah River

[Coosa]

My brothers girlfriend lives in Kansas close to the ninnescah river. He has been wanting to bring his kayak and do a little float and fish there but her brother in law keeps telling him that he needs permission to float it from the land owners whos land he will be floating through. He asked me if this was true and I told him I didn't think so as long as he didn't go through private property to put in. But I told him I really know nothing about the law in Kansas. So if someone could give me a little info it would be much appreciated. Also any info about the fishing in this river would be great. Heck for all I know it may not even be worth fishing.

[ness]

As always, there's the law and there's people's perception of what is right or wrong. Crazy landowners can ruin your day even if you have your lawyer in the boat with you. I'd check on the law, but I'd also get as much info on the dude(s) making the claim on the water too.

Where is this river?

[Coosa]

By Pratt Kansas.

[ness]

Well, if he get's kicked off the river there's always the Servateria. I've had a few opening day breakfasts there -- it never disappoints.

[Riverwhy]

A friend of mine was recently stopped by the sheriff on Charrette Creek in Missouri and told he was trespassing for kayaking down the creek. So, I'm not sure about Kansas but in Missouri small creeks are evidently private property even if the have enough water volume to float.

[Ham]

A friend of mine was recently stopped by the sheriff on Charrette Creek in Missouri and told he was trespassing for kayaking down the creek. So, I'm not sure about Kansas but in Missouri small creeks are evidently private property even if the have enough water volume to float.

Man, I don't think so. Was he stopped by the sheriff himself or a deputy of the sheriff? I thought it was public property to the high water mark.

[Al Agnew]

It's quite possible the brother in law is right about Kansas...I think they are quite a bit more restrictive on stream access than Missouri.

As for Missouri, we've hashed this out many times, but here goes again...the landowner owns everything but the water, even on larger floatable streams. He owns the stream banks, gravel bars, and the bed to the centerline of the river, or if he owns both sides, he owns the whole river bottom as well. That's what the deed will say. HOWEVER, on streams large enough to float, the Missouri Supreme Court ruled that there is essentially a public easement to use the streams to float, fish, picnic, camp, and swim, as well as to portage around obstacles, as long as they stay below the bank-full high water mark, or if necessary to portage around something, that they can get above that high water mark ONLY to portage.

In the case of Charrette Creek, it's one of those gray areas, a stream that is not often floated, not often having enough volume of water to float, and landowners who really want to keep people off it. Since the court case that decided stream access REALLY only applies to the section of stream that was featured in the court case, other stream sections of similar size and larger are just assumed to be covered by the precedent set by the court case. Charrette Creek may or may not fall into that category...there has never been a court decision specifically on Charrette Creek. So what it then boils down to is whether or not the sheriff wants to arrest people for floating it, and whether or not the county prosecutor wants to prosecute them for trespass. If they do, often because the landowners are campaign donors or otherwise influential people in the county, then the only recourse is to fight it in court in the hopes of taking it to a higher court that will rule in your favor...and very few people have the time, money, or inclination to do that.

[Terrierman]

From the Kansas Department of Parks Wildlife and Tourism website.

Most streams and rivers in Kansas are privately owned. The public rivers are the Kansas, Arkansas and Missouri (shown at right). They are open to the public between the ordinary high water marks on each bank. This is the line that can be seen where high water has left debris, sand, and gravel during its ordinary annual cycle. When these rivers flow through private land, permission is needed from adjacent landowners to access the rivers as well as when picnicking, camping, portaging or engaging in any other activity on the adjacent private lands.

Except where they pass through the legal limits of a government entity, the rest of our streams and rivers are privately owned, and permission is needed from the landowners to access and use the streams and adjacent lands for any purpose.

[Riverwhy]

For clarification it was a deputy sheriff. Deputy was polite but told him you can only float streams determined to be navigable and then listed some examples of both. He was not issued a citation but was made to immediately exit the water. I am quite confident the prosecuting attorney would not have pursued the issue but who wants to go through that ordeal.

[Coosa]

Well thanks for the input everyone. The information has been passed on.

On a side note, caught 18 3/4" smallie today. My second best. Paid for it dearly though wading through itchweed in shorts.