Pinkel's last home game

[stlfisher]

Personally, I think that Barry Odom needs to be on your short list.  He is widely considered as an up an comer and this is a destination job for him.  This is how Mizzou will have success IMO.   Sure there is risk, but no more than any other candidate IMO.

I agree with the LSU fan above. Now way is Les Miles is a fit at Mizzou. Yes, he won a national championship, but he has all the advantages at LSU that we would not have at Mizzou.  He is an average coach, with a quirky personality, on a team full of 5 star athletes. I don't fault him for losing to Alabama, but they have lost too many games the last several years and he is 62 years old.  They should have won more with the talent he had.  He won't have that talent at Mizzou.  He wouldn't come anyway. 

I think Odom is your guy.

[Ham]

OH, there's no doubt that in a perfect world Les MIles would self scout more and adapt multiple plays out of ONE look. Show run and throw or show pass and then run, but nobody's perfect. Giving the system he grew up in, it's not all that surprizing that he wants to have dominant talent and dictate the game. That gets tough when you telegraph what you are going to do to a team with equal or more talent than your team.

I don't think Les would be successful everywhere. I wouldn't want the Mizzou job anyway because of what the players pulled. I would have told everyone of them to play the games as scheduled or resign from the team and forfiet their scholarship immediately and permanantly. I guess they would have whined about being a victim again.

I don't know why anyone would weant the LSU job either. The school and fanbase have zero loyality after that many years of consistent success. Who needs it ; although $5 million of year buys a lot of Kleenex.

[BATCAB27]

3 hours ago, stlfisher said:

Personally, I think that Barry Odom needs to be on your short list.  He is widely considered as an up an comer and this is a destination job for him.  This is how Mizzou will have success IMO.   Sure there is risk, but no more than any other candidate IMO.

I agree with the LSU fan above. Now way is Les Miles is a fit at Mizzou. Yes, he won a national championship, but he has all the advantages at LSU that we would not have at Mizzou.  He is an average coach, with a quirky personality, on a team full of 5 star athletes. I don't fault him for losing to Alabama, but they have lost too many games the last several years and he is 62 years old.  They should have won more with the talent he had.  He won't have that talent at Mizzou.  He wouldn't come anyway. 

I think Odom is your guy.

the "former alum with no D1 head coaching experience" experiment is happening on the hardwood.  I don't know if I can handle it on the gridiron.  We all knew the basketball program was in rebuild mode and were ok with giving Anderson the opportunity to do that.  But I don't feel like the football program is rebuilding, I want to win football games now.  Not that I think we should get him but Chip Kelly's name has been flying around today.

[Flysmallie]

13 hours ago, BATCAB27 said:

But I don't feel like the football program is rebuilding, I want to win football games now.  Not that I think we should get him but Chip Kelly's name has been flying around today.

When your head coach leaves you are rebuilding. I don't care what team it is. And Chip Kelly should go back to wherever he came from. He is not the stud that everyone thought he was. Mizzou hires Kelly and I immediately become a Arkansas fan.

[hoglaw]

On ‎11‎/‎24‎/‎2015‎ ‎11‎:‎45‎:‎45‎, Ham said:

I get really tired of the hate/ disrepect for Les MIles from Arky fans (and LSU fans too but thats another rant). He averaged more than 9 wins a year. He has guided LSU to 42 consecutive regular season non conference wins (think Toledo). He got LSU another National Championship. LSU has three of them. He got us one. He coached in another National Championship game that was a disaster. That LSU team went to Alabama and beat a better team. I really dont think bama should have gotten a rematch after NOT having played in SEC Championship, but I was not shocked LSU lost that game. I was bitterly disappointed in how they played. Regardless, that's One National Championship more than Arkansas has total.

Les Miles is loved by his players and is able to recruit them well. LSU did not always recruit this well and we will not recruit as well IF he leaves. I do believe LSU will continue to recruit better than U of A, but I doubt they remain NFLU after Miles is run off.  It's total bull crap to NOT give Miles credit for the talent he obtains, but then blame him for faiing to win a national championship every year. What the hell kind of standard is that? National Championship every 5 years or you have to go?

Saban and bama has been the main stumbling block for Miles. LSU fans constantly bring that up and make that comparision because Saban left LSU to go to the NFL. Saban aint coming back and I don't want him back. Saban is NOT getting routinely beat by other SEC coaches either. Saban is a very successful coach and a very flawed person. I would love for him to go back to the NFL and fail again or leave bama and be a football nazi somewhere else. BUT whatever

Les Miles has been way more successful over his time at LSU that any of the Arkansas coaches during his time. If Petrino would have bought his girlfriends with his own money, he may have been close to being as successful as Miles has been, but he bought his side action with U of A money and that cost him. Don't tell me how Miles has under performed when your guys haven't been close.

The LSU vs Arkansas is a one sided rivarily. It is a huge game for Arky, and LSU always plays flat. I have no clue why LSU doesn't care about that game and I wish it was different, but it aint. I have no clue why they switched to Tamu. I don't think Tamu is going to be a good team in the long haul, but we will see I suppose.

 

I forgot you were an LSU homer.  I think criticism of Miles form LSU fans or anyone else is totally fair game.  I didn't post in this thread to attack LSU, just to say that I don't think Les Miles would be a good hire for Mizzou.  But you immediately go on the offensive about how much more successful he's been than anyone at Arkansas?  Since I don't seem to be entitled to an opinion, I'll dig up some facts.

The criticism of Miles is not that LSU hasn't been successful.  LSU has won its non conference games and has gone 47-17 in SEC play.  LSU won a national championship (albeit with Saban recruits).  I consider that to be very successful.  I'd love for Arkansas to have that record.  The criticism of Les Miles is that he has consistently done "less with more." 

LSU was hardly on the map before Nick Saban came to town, routinely finishing in the middle of the pack of the SEC with some outlying good seasons and some outlying bad seasons.  Very similar to Arkansas.  In the Saban and Miles era, LSU has dominated recruiting, landing consensus top ten classes most years,  never lower than 22nd (2005 class) and a couple #1 classes.  No doubt, LSU has recruited exceptionally well since 2000.

The problem is what has LSU done with those classes?  With similar recruiting rankings, Alabama (who LSU folks like to compare themselves to)  won national championships during Les's LSU years in 2009, 2011, and 2012.  Plenty of SEC Championship appearances to boot. 

One of my favorite statistics as an indicator of a coach's effect on a team is to look at the team's record against the spread.  To me, a coach's development and use of talent is really tough to quantify, but how the team does against projected results by professional oddsmakers really shows overperformance/underperformance.  Sure, that's not all attributable to a coach, but the one stat that really seems to follow coaches from school to school is their performance against the spread.

I didn't actually know what LSU's performance was like.  I felt like it was bad, but I had to look it up.  Amazingly, LSU's record against the spread under Miles is the worst in the SEC....dead last...since 2005 among coaches who had 25 games (Dooley, Joker Phillips, Pinkel, and our beloved John L. Smith were worse).  During the Miles era, no other SEC coach has been at the helm of a team that more consistently failed to meet the calculated expectations of handicappers.  The two coaches at the top of that list?  Bobby Petrino with a .625 record, and Nick Saban at .574 - both coaches that I feel really get the most out of their talent.

So yeah, LSU has had a great track record.  But the criticism of Miles (and I think it's completely fair) is that he should have had a lot better one.  Miles has had a tremendous talent pool (NFL-U as you called it), but consistently fails to meet the expectations attached to it.  Hell, LSU's final drive of the first half and first drive of the second half of the Arkansas game should have shown you that LSU could have easily handled the hogs, but for some unknown reason Les abandoned what worked and went back to playing to our strength. 

So no, I don't think Les Miles would be a good "get" for Missouri.  Missouri doesn't attract the talent that LSU started attracting when Saban came to town.  Missouri and Arkansas are very similar in that regard - neither one is a destination for five star recruits.  Missouri (just like Arkansas) needs a coach with a track record of doing more with less - someone innovative who can maximize the cards he is dealt.  Maybe Les Miles would be a great recruiting coordinator somewhere, but as a coach, he does Les with more than anyone else I can think of. 

[Ham]

I guess "Homer" is a term for fans of any tean except U of A. Remember that I am an alumni of LSU (Class of 83) so I have a reason to be a "homer" for LSU. There are untold thousands of fans of both LSU and U of A that never attended either university. I do not fall into that category. Your are more that entitled to your opinion about LSU or anything else. I just think its flawed.

I disagree with your comparisons of Arkansas and LSU. I think LSU is a larger university and LSU has had a larger football program for decades. You might also be unaware of the National Championship team in 1958 ( a few years before my time as well, but my Mom and Dad were  attending LSU then). The 1972 team was pretty special as well, but they ran into Nebraska back when Nebraska meant something. I think rule changes involving numbers of scholarships allowed and kids having more choices have derailed Nebrasha for the foreseeable future.The ups and downs were post Charlie Mac and prior to Saban. I don't remember Arkansas ever being a part of the national conversation prior to joining the SEC, but again it was a different  era and people worried about stuff closer at home. I would agree that this has been a really special time for LSU. I guess we disagree in that I think it was because of Les and you think it was in spite of him

LSU has had a wealth of talent, but they only get to have 11 of them on the field at a time AND It's hard to maximise your benefit from players when they coonsistently leave as Jr's for the NFL. That catches up with you after a while. And from time to time beloved players are too immature to avoid making awful choices and must be removed from the team. I can think of a couple of NFL players that would have benefited LSU greatly if they could have behaved and a dozen or so NFL players that would have helped a bunch had they gone pro after their Senior year rather than before. Again, this NFL caliber talent that LSU got wasn't football manna from heaven. Lots of football program recruit the same guys, but LSU got these guys because of in large part Les MIles and his staff. So before you degrade huim for LSU's failure to do more with what they had, you should give him credit for getting that talent from the get go.

But yep, you are absolutely correct, Miles should have averaged 11 wins a year instead of > 9 and had three more national championships appearences in his time with LSU because so many other coaches have been able to do that. Hell, any average coach should get at least one national championship every 5 years. Right?

I do not give a loose crap about Vegas oddsmakers and their line. You can make that arguement if you want to do so, but it means less than nothing to me. You don't watch LSU games any more than I watch Hog games. You are unaware of ALL the many times LSU could have scored late or run up the score, but that is not how Miles operates. Many times they will drive donw the field and then take a knee three times and kick a field goal or take a knee and hand the ball to the other team. Multiple times this year they were driving late iin the game and got  inside the 20 only to take a knee three times and run the clock out. Would they have covered the spread more often IF Miles chose to run up the score or score late? yep, but so what? It that cost fools some money because they bet on LSU well that sucks for them.

[BATCAB27]

2 hours ago, hoglaw said:

I didn't actually know what LSU's performance was like.  I felt like it was bad, but I had to look it up.  Amazingly, LSU's record against the spread under Miles is the worst in the SEC....dead last...since 2005 among coaches who had 25 games (Dooley, Joker Phillips, Pinkel, and our beloved John L. Smith were worse).  During the Miles era, no other SEC coach has been at the helm of a team that more consistently failed to meet the calculated expectations of handicappers.  The two coaches at the top of that list?  Bobby Petrino with a .625 record, and Nick Saban at .574 - both coaches that I feel really get the most out of their talent.

That's because Petrino had money on his games.  I mean, I know it's difficult to believe that a class act like Bobby would do something like this.  It use to be a joke with me and a friend.  We'd be watching a Petrino coached game, they'd be 28 point favorites and be up by 24 with 5 min left.  I'd say "think Petrino is gna run out the clock?" He'd say "hell no, he's got 10k on this game!"  Sure enough, starters stayed in and the playbook was open.  maybe he was just in with the mob.  

[Al Agnew]

I think there are good arguments for and against Odom.  I'm still on the fence on him.  

Ham, the players weren't "whining" about being victims, they were concerned (duped?) about the hunger striker and felt solidarity with the protesters.  In a perfect world, Pinkel would have been forced by the administration to make them play or hit the road, but in THIS world, money rules, and the chance of losing the millions if Mizzou had to forfeit was too scary.  And I don't think it runs any coach off, because what the Mizzou episode showed was that everybody is in the same boat...it's almost guaranteed that players will walk out for something somewhere else because they have the leverage to do so, so no coaching job is safe from that.  Mizzou lost one player commit from it so far, so it doesn't look like that will be hugely significant.

What MIGHT discourage a few coaching prospects is the situation for next year.  With the total lack of development of the young wide receivers this season (none of them seem to have gotten ANY better at separation, route running, catching passes, or blocking), and with the dearth of up and coming offensive linemen to take the place of the seniors who played really badly (you just can't believe NOBODY on the team was better than the starters), it doesn't look like the offense is going to be much if any better next year.  Unless the coach they hire brings a few stud recruits along with him, he's probably looking at at least one more mediocre season even if Lock develops into the quarterback everybody thinks he is.

[hoglaw]

On 11/25/2015 3:04:50, BATCAB27 said:

That's because Petrino had money on his games.  I mean, I know it's difficult to believe that a class act like Bobby would do something like this.  It use to be a joke with me and a friend.  We'd be watching a Petrino coached game, they'd be 28 point favorites and be up by 24 with 5 min left.  I'd say "think Petrino is gna run out the clock?" He'd say "hell no, he's got 10k on this game!"  Sure enough, starters stayed in and the playbook was open.  maybe he was just in with the mob.  

 

Riiiight.  Petrino's total comp at arkansas averaged about 290k a game. But yeah,  he got his real kicks from betting 3% of that on games. Like a gas station attendant who snags a quarter from the register every now and then. But your buddy said it so it must be true.  

[BATCAB27]

34 minutes ago, hoglaw said:

 

Riiiight.  Petrino's total comp at arkansas averaged about 290k a game. But yeah,  he got his real kicks from betting 3% of that on games. Like a gas station attendant who snags a quarter from the register every now and then. But your buddy said it so it must be true.  

You're right, it was probably a lot more than 10k.  Shoot, he stroked his mistress a check for 20k so she could get a new car.