Funny Thing About Conservation Issues.

[jdmidwest]

I like to trout fish too, but have seen them overcompete the smallmouth in a stream.  Where they quit stocking at is where the smallmouth pick up steam.  I realize there is a temperature variable around that point, but I still can't be convinced that if they were gone, smallmouth would improve in that stream.

The feral hog thing is puzzling me.  When people started fencing them again, they disappeared for a long time.  And the number of hog farms have declined to almost nothing compared to when I was a kid.  I don't know if the Russians are more adapted to surviving in the wild than the breeds farmers raised during open range or what.

[Al Agnew]

Yeah, otters and elk were native.  The blunder with otters turned out to be that the habitat they were being RE-introduced to was considerably different from the habitat they evolved in.  Small streams with degraded habitat, leaving fish with less space to move around in to escape otters.  Farm ponds that furnished a smorgasbord of stupid fish even after the otters decimated the creek fish nearby.  No natural predators left.  In hindsight it wasn't a good idea, but it had been done in other places without the problems we have had here in the Ozarks.

Elk were also introduced into fragmented habitat.  So yeah, they probably were pretty costly to stock and manage.  Kind of a novelty species at this point.

As I understand it, the feral hog problem stems from hogs with the Russian genetics being purposely or accidentally allowed to escape into the wild.  Not hog farm escapees, either.
JD, to get an idea of the impact of trout on the smallmouth population, all you have to do is look at the places that are heavily influenced by big springs but DON'T have trout.  Current River from Akers to Pulltite is a decent example, but the Jacks Fork between Alley Spring and Eminence is the best one.  Good smallmouth habitat EXCEPT the water is cold in the summer, and as it turns out, the smallie population in both those stretches is far from terrific.  So I don't think that the trout in other stretches are affecting smallmouth that much because the habitat never favored smallies.  Smallmouth just don't occupy quite the same ecological niche as trout.  Sure, they eat some of the same foods and use some of the same river pools, but smallmouth are pretty tough fish as long as the habitat is okay for them.

A lot of people don't realize how many non-native and invasive species there are, especially plants.  About half the wildflowers you see along the roadsides are not native but came from (usually) Europe.  

[lee G.]

9 hours ago, Al Agnew said:

Yeah, otters and elk were native.  The blunder with otters turned out to be that the habitat they were being RE-introduced to was considerably different from the habitat they evolved in.  Small streams with degraded habitat, leaving fish with less space to move around in to escape otters.  Farm ponds that furnished a smorgasbord of stupid fish even after the otters decimated the creek fish nearby.  No natural predators left.  In hindsight it wasn't a good idea, but it had been done in other places without the problems we have had here in the Ozarks.

Elk were also introduced into fragmented habitat.  So yeah, they probably were pretty costly to stock and manage.  Kind of a novelty species at this point.

As I understand it, the feral hog problem stems from hogs with the Russian genetics being purposely or accidentally allowed to escape into the wild.  Not hog farm escapees, either.
JD, to get an idea of the impact of trout on the smallmouth population, all you have to do is look at the places that are heavily influenced by big springs but DON'T have trout.  Current River from Akers to Pulltite is a decent example, but the Jacks Fork between Alley Spring and Eminence is the best one.  Good smallmouth habitat EXCEPT the water is cold in the summer, and as it turns out, the smallie population in both those stretches is far from terrific.  So I don't think that the trout in other stretches are affecting smallmouth that much because the habitat never favored smallies.  Smallmouth just don't occupy quite the same ecological niche as trout.  Sure, they eat some of the same foods and use some of the same river pools, but smallmouth are pretty tough fish as long as the habitat is okay for them.

A lot of people don't realize how many non-native and invasive species there are, especially plants.  About half the wildflowers you see along the roadsides are not native but came from (usually) Europe.  

Add the weeds, it really is a lot.

[MoCarp]

 

 

 

 

[MoCarp]

http://nr104invasivespecies.blogspot.com/2012/04/ring-necked-pheasant-tom-grey-thering.html

[MoCarp]

http://fishbio.com/field-notes/wildlife-ecology/the-delta-californias-big-bass-lake

[MoCarp]

we all have non-natives that are considered invasive yet man has altered habitats so all bets are off, the ones that add get praised theater vilified 

as common carp become more popular the screams of non-natives and invasive just fuel the push to remove critters like brown trout and LMB

food for thought

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7abu6MhmCNxqUT4I/giphy.gif

[oneshot]

Ok in Cold water Rivers I rather catch Suckers and Goggle Eye than Trout but around here Trout are the Big Money Maker.

Otters the MDC told me when they was being released that their numbers would never be Trapable they were just a Novelty.

Feral Hogs are not Russian Hog Cross. Regular Hogs will revert back to their Wild State in 6 months, Chipmunk Marked Piglets and Crazy Course Hair. I have hunted Both Feral Hogs and True Russian Boar in Austria. They are both very different.

Carp were released after so many streams became polluted to furnish Fresh Fish. Use to be many setting out Lines would Bait for Catfish and Carp. Use to see Carp in Meat Department in the Store.

I probably never will hunt Missouri Elk, for several years it will be about money.

oneshot