Ideal casting rod/real/line/lure weight for long casts

[darbwa]

I am hoping to get some information about casting gear for river use. I have long been a fan of casting gear but as I began fishing rivers more often, I started to throw spinning gear more to get longer casts with the lighter lures (compared to lake fishing for largemouth). I now bring only one casting set up on river trips but find that when I throw a small buzz bait I have to take a mighty swing to get any distance and when I have to put everything into a cast, I loose the accuracy that makes the casting gear attractive in the first place.  So I will ask it this way, if you are fishing a river from a canoe, what is your ideal set up with casting gear including lure weight?  I know Al is a big casting gear fan so I am hoping to get his take but I’m sure he isn’t the only one.

[rps]

Answer a couple of questions and I will make a suggestion.

What weight range are the baits you will fish?

Since you are in a kayak I assume you prefer a somewhat shorter rod? 6' or 6'6"?

Standard or pistol grip?

Are you a wrist caster or an arm caster?

What price range is your top end?  >$100?   >$200?   >$300?

What about the reel? (Some combinations require an upper level reel. My Ned rig bait caster works best with something like the Revo MGX.)

 

[Al Agnew]

I hate to admit it, but I'm not sure I can help you much.  I cast lures down to 1/8th ounce on casting tackle, but most of the time I'm not trying to get great distance with lures that size.  You're right, the WORST lure to try to throw on casting tackle for me is a 1/4th ounce buzzbait.  It's the one lure that I AM usually trying to get good distance on that gives me trouble.  I've actually gone to making my own buzzbaits with flattened 3/8th or even 1/2 ounce heads but in a compact package.  With a flattened head I can keep the heavier ones up at the surface fairly easily.  

Distance with light lures on casting tackle seems to me to be more a function of the rod than the reel.  There are a lot of reels out today that can handle throwing light lures IF the rod is good for it.  The lighter in power the rod is, the better it loads with light lures, and the longer it is the more power and thus distance you can get with a cast with smooth acceleration and not a hard as you can heave.  My canoe rods are shorter than most people use...5.25 to 6 feet, and I don't really plan to get great distance with some of the lures I use.  Basically I'm only making long casts when I'm fishing very clear water or making long searching casts with crankbaits, and I don't have any trouble getting the distance I need in clear streams with anything from 1/4th ounce twin spins to any crankbait or topwater lure I use...but I don't use lures that are very small.

So...my reels are mid-level (in cost) models from Lews, Shimano, Diawa, and Abu-Garcia...I have zero brand loyalty and every reel I own cost from $100 to $200.  I have yet to see a big enough difference in how they cast light lures to make a definitive choice of one over another.  My rods are mostly medium power, with a couple on the medium-light side and a couple for jig and worm fishing that are medium-heavy.  I've had people recommend reels to me that they swore would cast light lures a mile...and when I tried them they were no better than what I was already using.

[Mitch f]

I guess I would throw a braided line with your buzzbait to get extra distance. Seagaur makes smackdown, which is a really fine diameter braid. The braid will also help set the hook by almost completely eliminating stretch on your longer casts. I would throw a Med  7ft Rod. 

[Flysmallie]

Throwing a buzzbait long distances decreases your chance of a good hookup with the fish. But the quickest way to get distance is quit throwing small buzzbaits. They cast further and just work better. 

[darbwa]

9 hours ago, rps said:

Answer a couple of questions and I will make a suggestion.

What weight range are the baits you will fish?

Since you are in a kayak I assume you prefer a somewhat shorter rod? 6' or 6'6"?

Standard or pistol grip?

Are you a wrist caster or an arm caster?

What price range is your top end?  >$100?   >$200?   >$300?

What about the reel? (Some combinations require an upper level reel. My Ned rig bait caster works best with something like the Revo MGX.)

 

1. Ideally I would like to be able to cast 1/4 ounce lures with some distance and accuracy. 

2. I have been using nothing but 6’ rods on my canoe trips but am considering going with a longer rod if it means I don’t have to throw my arm off to get the job done.

3. Standard grip but I am open. Used a pistol grip a lot as a kid (lightning rod - vague memory, not sure who made it, probably no more than 5.5’) and felt like I threw that thing pretty well.

4.  I’m probably more of an arm caster but I’m not sure. I certainly use both. 
5. For the sake of this discussion, let’s not put a price limit on it.  After all good time spent fishing is priceless!

[darbwa]

2 hours ago, Al Agnew said:

I hate to admit it, but I'm not sure I can help you much.  I cast lures down to 1/8th ounce on casting tackle, but most of the time I'm not trying to get great distance with lures that size.  You're right, the WORST lure to try to throw on casting tackle for me is a 1/4th ounce buzzbait.  It's the one lure that I AM usually trying to get good distance on that gives me trouble.  I've actually gone to making my own buzzbaits with flattened 3/8th or even 1/2 ounce heads but in a compact package.  With a flattened head I can keep the heavier ones up at the surface fairly easily.  

Distance with light lures on casting tackle seems to me to be more a function of the rod than the reel.  There are a lot of reels out today that can handle throwing light lures IF the rod is good for it.  The lighter in power the rod is, the better it loads with light lures, and the longer it is the more power and thus distance you can get with a cast with smooth acceleration and not a hard as you can heave.  My canoe rods are shorter than most people use...5.25 to 6 feet, and I don't really plan to get great distance with some of the lures I use.  Basically I'm only making long casts when I'm fishing very clear water or making long searching casts with crankbaits, and I don't have any trouble getting the distance I need in clear streams with anything from 1/4th ounce twin spins to any crankbait or topwater lure I use...but I don't use lures that are very small.

So...my reels are mid-level (in cost) models from Lews, Shimano, Diawa, and Abu-Garcia...I have zero brand loyalty and every reel I own cost from $100 to $200.  I have yet to see a big enough difference in how they cast light lures to make a definitive choice of one over another.  My rods are mostly medium power, with a couple on the medium-light side and a couple for jig and worm fishing that are medium-heavy.  I've had people recommend reels to me that they swore would cast light lures a mile...and when I tried them they were no better than what I was already using.

I think there is plenty in this response that is helpful!  Thank you Al. But what I would love to know is, what is the setup you use to throw that light buzz bait or that 1/8 ounce lure? I am trying to get an understanding of the combination that works for relatively light baits. 

[rps]

After I read your answers, I knew what I would suggest. I think a 6' to 6'6" casting rod would serve you best. If a lure tangles at the tip, it is difficult to reach a longer rod tip sitting in a kayak. Boat fishermen are standing and can set the handle down and back. Standing in canoes and most kayaks is problematical. Besides, a shorter rod avoids over hanging trees better.

For the size of typical lures for stream and river fishing, you would want a rod rated for 1/4th to 1/2 ounce lure and 6 to 12 # line. To help with distance, you want a rod that will load more easily so look for a medium-ish power and a moderate fast (or even moderate) action. I had a 6' Falcon that matched those specs around 20 years ago. I bought it at a boat show. If I still had it I would give it to you.

Further suggestion: in a good rod the overall weight is not really a concern. Instead, you want a rod with a light tip and the weight at or behind your casting hand. Think of the swords in movies with knights. They all have large and heavy pommels for a reason. Same with scimitars and samurai swords. Based on that I suggest you avoid the lower end price range as one of the hallmarks of those is larger and heavier guides on older style heavier blanks.

I have always recommended Falcon rods, but they have nothing in their current rod line up that meets the specs described.

St Croix makes 6' casting models with specs close to the above in the Mojo and Avid series. You might see if you can get one in your hands. The BPS in Tulsa is dinky compared to Mecca in Springfield, but they carry St Croix Mojo and Avid series rods.

For reels, find a Lews in your price range, unless you want enthusiast level. Then find the Daiwa that Babbler recommends.

Sadly, one of the best stream and river baits, the Ned, is a different problem. Are you sure you won't carry two rods?

As a final resort, build your own rod or find someone to do it for you. Currently, you can put together a high quality rod for around $200 in parts.

Hope this helps.

BTW, Al's comments above are gold.

 

 

[Mitch f]

I wouldn’t use a smaller buzzbait either. Use at least a 3/8 oz. you can throw it much further

[snagged in outlet 3]

3 bladed buzzers pop up faster and you can reel them slower and they still stay on top.  3/8's is the lightest I go.