Ethanol in Gas

[bclift65706]

I run 91 octane in my boat dont know what 100 would do the cheap gas just dont have the power sence all gas in missouri can contain 10% ethanol and dont even have to tell. My mounteneer use to get 22 mpg now olny 13 and they say ethonal is better but I dont think they were talking for you and me when they said better.

[bigredbirdfan]

You can get Marine Gas from Lamar at Scotty's Trout Dock at the Landing and it has NO ETHANOL in it. I am sure you will pay a little more for it but I am confident it will be less in than the repairs in the long run.

[Wayne SW/MO]

it's not going to make gasoline cheaper.

I don't think it was ever meant to, but was intended to makes us more secure by not depending on a fuel source we can't control. This doesn't even account for the dollars that are most likely coming back to haunt us.

Fuel economy seems to be a more personal thing and I can't tell that my Liberty loses more than about 1 mpg with Ethanol, my wifes Neon about 2.

[fishinwrench]

Fishinwrench,

Thought I would bring this post up again. I have found one source of ethanol free gas. It is 100LL, which is 100 octane low lead gas designed for aviation use. One can find it at most any airport but it is expensive, about $.75 to 1.00 over regular gas.

Fishinwrench, you stated that higher octane gas was okay, would 100 octane be okay? Would be worth the higher price to not damage the motor. Should more oil be used with it?

Dave

Dave, I don't think it would hurt it, just seems like a hassle having to go to the airport for boat fuel. No more oil per volume...still 50:1

[jdmidwest]

Thanks to our buddies in Mo Government, we have to choke on the ethanol junk till the mandate is repealed. How someone let this one slide through without protest is beyond me. Ethanol gas is junk. Ethanol production is a governement subsidized boondoogle that uses more resources than it saves. My 4.3 chevy engines do not like it. The boat and the mowers seem to run weaker too. And it cuts on gas mileage.

Ethanol is a finger in the dike that someone dreamed up. We need to take control of our own oil production. We need to build more refineries to produce gase and diesel, not make some other environmental problems with the ethanol plants. We need to let the mideast oil companies sit on their oil while we use our own for a while and let them eat sand. We have the reserves and the technology to convert our oil shale deposits and convert coal to oil so why not do that? Why burn food products like corn?

[skeeter]

Was reading in the St. Louis paper lately where MO Legislature discovered they shot themselves in their foot when they passed this moronic "mandate" about ETHANOL content of gasoline. It seems that some of our "Esteemed" lawmakers that voted for the "mandate" are cattlemen and they have discovered their feed prices doubling and tripling due to higher corn prices. Talk about poetic justice

The newspaper further reported there was a move to repeal the "mandate" but since the session ends Friday 5-16 and there are many more important issues that have not been acted on I don't know if the "repeal" will take place. We can only cross our fingers.

[Wayne SW/MO]

Eventually the misinformation will settle down, and ethanol won't be quite as bad as its pictured. While I doubt its the fuel of the future, it may have a place in the overall scheme. I remember when taking lead out was viewed as the end of gas engines as we knew them.

As for corn and livestock feed, thats simply not what some would have you believe. Feed has gone up because of many shortages and price increases, corn is probably one of the lessor reasons.

When congress decides to lift the tariffs on Brazilian Ethanol and allow more oil exploration and production here, Missouri's mandate will mean nothing.

[bclift65706]

@3.45 a gallon it cost me 26 cents a mile to drive @ 13mpg gas without ethanal was getting 22 mpg and if gas without ethonal was 5.50 a gallon it would cost 25 cents a mile. Everyone keeps saying $5 dollar gas this year if you put a pencile to it like that is is already more than $5. actually 5.75 would be 26 cents a mile compaird to 3.45 etanol blend

[wily]

my mechanic suggested removing the fuel line from the motor once the boat is on the trailer...and running the engine about half throttle until it dies from lack of gas. only takes a minute or two...that way the alcohol isn't left in the carb. i've been doing it every since.

[roundtrout]

Great summary and don't worry about being new to the forums!

Hello - new here, came across this forum when reviewing recent changes in Missouri fuel laws.

I started an ethanol fuel education website about 3 years ago because of the problems boaters were experiencing with E10 -so I felt obligated to post when I read inaccurate or misleading info here. (Now that E10 is widespread I interact more with auto owners, since boaters only account for 5 % of fuel purchased).

My personal view is that ethanol alcohol blends of fuel are NOT compatible with marine engines...(engines that live in water, boaters' don't replace fuel often - and often store engines for extended periods of time - and boats used during most humid months.

Yes I know marine manufacturers now allow for up to 10% ethanol, in newer engines, but most reluctantly changed fuel recommendations b/c they had no other choice (some areas do not have non-alcohol fuel readily available due to quotas they must meet for renewable fuels).

For those that don't know much about ethanol, briefly -it's an ethyl alcohol used to oxygenate gas in E10, is a solvent, degreaser, antifreeze, miscible/hygroscopic - readily attracts and absorbs water, and has a shelf life of max 3 months under ideal low humidity condition.

Without posting several links - it will be hard to get you all the facts you need - but hopefully info/link below will direct you thread towards factual and useful info.

Aircraft fuel is not safe or recommended for marine or auto engines- There are several different types of aviation fuel, if you specifically state which aviation fuel you're discussing - I can explain exact reasons why -

but keep in mind that aviation fuel has a very different composition than auto/marine fuels. Aviation fuel ignites and burns at a different temperature, and has different additives (de-icing, etc.). Most important is it lacks many of the the stabilizers, conditioners and lubricants found in auto/marine fuel. (Explains why aviation fuel burns completely, unlike conventional gas). gasoline contains hundreds of ingredients - all serve a purpose to meet ASTM fuel standards. BTW it's not the higher octane that's the problem, since marine engines usually can handle higher octane fuels (often recomended).

The Missouri Renewable Fuel Standard became effective January 2008. Federal standards and laws (eg. RFS, Alternative Motor Fuel Acts, etc.) guide mandates and quotas for renewable fuels. What concerns me in Missouri, is their standard does little to allow consumers easy and informed access to non-alcohol fuels.

Missouri is one of 13 states that still does not require ethanol (E10) labeling - (Bad)...

While Missouri previously had provision for no alcohol in premium gas, (Good) http://www.ethanol.org/pdf/contentmgmt/ACE...us_07_web-1.pdf

they now are saying "all gasoline must contain 10% ethanol"...marinas and premium over 91 exempt..."it may be blended with ethanol"...

So no longer can you feel safe when buying premium that it does not contain ethanol...

Wonder how they plan to enforce statemnt that premium will be "advertised as not containing ethanol" when it does not contain alcohol?

See Missouri Renewable Fuel Standard Act (2008): http://www.mda.mo.gov/FuelQuality/renewablefuelstandard.htm

I think this page will be very informative to you also: (Ten Things Missouri Tank Owners and Operators Need to Know About Ethanol).

http://www.mda.mo.gov/pdf/morenewablefuelstandard.pdf

I have marine pages plus ethanol precautions on my website, plus information on fuel additives that contain alcohol (be very careful when adding any gas treatment products to tank- always check the MSDS first, if you're using E10 gas -

Eg. Evinrude 2 plus 4 fuel conditioner contains 95% isopropyl alcohol...

CD2 Engine Tune-up contains 100% alcohol (methanol plus other ingredients)...

K100 Marine Gas Treatment contains butoxyethanol, ethylene gloycol and more...

as do many other brands and types of octane enhancers, fuel system cleaners, etc.

I know many boat owners in Missouri are always checking gas (Portable Alcohol Test Kit), if you need more info on alcohol testing, just ask.

Hope this helps -

Hope the Missouri gov links are acceptable, being a newcomer I always try not to link in initial posts, but I think the Missouri RFS is very important for you all to read and know.

If you would like me to post my list of Top 20 Ethanol Precautions here (about 2 pages)- let me know, and I will.

Note: had difficulty with formatting of post, tried editing, so please ignore if bold or other format incorrect.