Big River

[Phil Lilley]

Had an inquiree about Big River and placing it on the forum. Can someone tell me about it?

[Gavin]

I grew up fishing the Meramec, the upper Big and some of the creeks that run into them. The Big is a trib of the Meramec that runs through the lead belt. There are some pretty spots in its upper reaches, but its got a lot of problems with lead mine contamination, cattle, and development due to its proximity to St. Louis. Mostly spotted bass in its lower reaches and a good smallmouth fishery in the upper end. Used to be a lot better than it is now. One of the few places near St. Louis with a good population of cottonmouths. Snakes dont bother me much, but these days the area is infested with a ton of meth heads. If you visit dont leave any gear in your car.

Cheers.

[duckydoty]

I fished the Bootleg access just south of Potosi on Hwy 21 pretty heavy for a 3 year stretch back around 2000. Lots of good small mouth and goggle eye then. Marijuana fields and eradication teams were the only problems I ran into there. Thats a funny story I'll have to tell sometime.

duckydoty

[Terry Beeson]

Just listen to Johnny Cash... he can tell you...

Now I taught the weeping willow how to cry,

And I showed the clouds how to cover up a clear blue sky.

And the tears that I cried for that woman are gonna flood you Big River.

Then I'm gonna sit right here until I die.

I met her accidentally in St. Paul (Minnesota).

And it tore me up every time I heard her drawl, Southern drawl.

Then I heard my dream was back Downstream cavortin' in Davenport,

And I followed you, Big River, when you called.

Then you took me to St. Louis later on (down the river).

A freighter said she's been here but she's gone, boy, she's gone.

I found her trail in Memphis, but she just walked up the block.

She raised a few eyebrows and then she went on down alone.

Now, won't you batter down by Baton Rouge, River Queen, roll it on.

Take that woman on down to New Orleans, New Orleans.

Go on, I've had enough; dump my blues down in the gulf.

She loves you, Big River, more than me.

[porter57]

at one time,areas on the big river were weekend destinations for many less affluent st louisans. i spent much time at detgens grove(near cedar hill)

just lolling around in the water ,camping on unimproved site for a nitely "parking" fee. there were many small mill dams but i think most of them are gone or have had holes blown in them. didnt really seriously fish

the river much then,but a few years ago, i did float a stretch and managed a fair number of smallmouths in jefferson county. wasnt exactly the most scenic float tho. its not unusual to find old cars dumped along the river banks,i suppose as some kind of makeshift bank stabilization project. many people had and still do have weekend getaway cabins(or shacks) along the river,and i imagine the river gets its fair share of kids looking for an out of the way place to party.ive floated some areas far upriver that were more pristine,but anywhere near st louis ,its kind of wrecked.

[Al Agnew]

Phil, Big River is my home river, and I've fished it all my life. I did a long description of its environmental problems that you can find on page 2 of "Big Ozark River Smallmouths" in the General Bass Fishing forum.

Big River gets a lot of use, given its proximity to the St. Louis area.

[skeeter]

Not long ago, there WAS some good smallmouth fishing to be had at Byrnes Mill just upstream from Cedar Hill. Have not heard any reports about that fishery in at least five years so don't know if the usual suspects ruined it or ???

At one point, MDC was practically begging anglers to keep every Kentucky they caught from the Big as they were concerned that they were taking over the food source of the smallmouth fishery. Only problem was and continues to be those familiar with the River's watershed are well aware of the lead mine tailings that drain their toxic soup into the upper reaches of the stream and no one with any sense wanted to risk consuming those Kentuckys. I really have no idea why the EPA's "Superfund" that was used to rid Times Beach of it's human applied coating of Dioxin was never utilized to clean up the leftovers from decades of lead mining.

[Al Agnew]

Skeeter, as I wrote in the thread I mentioned above, the lead tailings sites ARE Superfund sites, and are in the process of being stabilized. Work has been going on for 15 years or more, and is complete on some of them, while on a couple it is only getting started. It consists of lowering and smoothing the chat dumps and covering them with larger rock to end wind and water erosion on them, and smoothing the tailings deposits, shoring up the dams holding the fines back, covering them with topsoil and planting them to grasses. The goal is to stop further erosion into Big River. The tremendous amount of mine tailings that is already in the river from 100 years of erosion is a problem without any real solution, given that it covers more than 100 miles of river. The biologists at MDC are considering some rather innovative ways to improve things up in the part of the river that is the worst affected, such as finding old abandoned channels that aren't filled with the mine waste like the present channel is, and diverting the river into them wherever possible. But among the many problems with this is that the entire upper river is in private ownership and you'd have to have the owners' cooperation.

As for the spotted bass, nothing keeps me from KILLING the legal limit of them every time...they often end up as raccoon food out behind the house, or on the river bank.

For those of you who are still not familiar with the spotted bass problem in the Meramec river system, including Big River, suffice it to say that the smallmouth fishery, which was once the best in MO for BIG smallmouths, has been totally ruined in over 200 miles of streams. While I admire and value spotted bass in the south flowing streams in which they are native, I absolutely hate the evil little critters in Big River.

[skeeter]

Al,

Figured I'd reply in this thread rather than over on the excellent post you made about your recent trip on the Big.

Guess I didn't keep up with the Fed's designating the lead mine tailings as a Superfund site, thanks for updating us.

Having ridden dirt bikes extensively in the 70's on a tailings site down Hwy 185 South of Sullivan I became very familiar with the "fines" and how St. Joe Lead and others would dam up entire valleys then "float" the "fines" via water transport into those valleys until full. That two mile long valley on 185 and a place in Flat River called the "Sugar Bowl" by the bikers were fun places to ride and would remind you of riding in the desert Southwest on BLM lands. However, those "fines" can be some of the most treacherous surfaces you ever encountered when wet. You've no doubt heard of "liquefaction" of alluvial soils during earthquakes ? Same goes for the "fines" only X 10. It only takes one rider to pass over a wet surface and the next guy will sink to his frame, guaranteed.

My point is it's good of the Fed's to "stabilize" these tailings impoundments of fines but the material is so unbelieveably fine and so incredibly subject to movement by liquid that I think the only real solution is to transport those fines right back where they came from, deep underground and off the surface of the planet. Those stabilization projects will only last so long and then future generations will be faced with the same problems we have seen. In other words, the problem isn't solved, just put off for a few years. Let's hope the overseers of the Superfund sites realize this in short order.

[jdmidwest]

Great river, it should be added to the Forum as a destination river. I guess I missed this post while out of town. I usually fish it a few times each year.