Smallie questions

[Fly guy]

I feel out of my depth when targeting smallmouth.  I've flyfished for trout for years with decent success. I've caught rainbows, brookies, browns, and cuts and had great days doing so. Not bragging just going off of fishing with friends  and experiences across multiple states.

Recently I've decided to change things up gear wise and target species wise. I've picked up a couple spinning rigs, an ultralight and an medium action rod and have begun stomping around some decently close (1 hour or so) rivers and creeks. 

Baitwise I've been throwing everything but the kitchen sink at them.  Ned rigged craws and worms,  rebel craws, jerk baits, worms rigged everyway possible, poppers of every variety,  frogs, square bills, and a few different spinner baits. Yet, to date the only smallie I've ever hooked up with was on the meramec downstream from the cardiac access while nymphing for trout and that was 10+ years ago.  

I will give that I am restricted to wade fishing as I don't own a boat of any variety. However, I've learned from waters like Mill creek, Crane creek, and Blue Springs creek to stay out of the water as much as possible and give the pool a few minutes before casting at a prospective fish.  

I'll see fish feeding and cruising as I did the other day, yet am as adept as a one legged man in an butt kicking contest at enticing them to strike. 

All this to say, what else can I add to my arsenal or change when targeting these fish?  Any help is greatly appreciated. 

[tjm]

23 minutes ago, Fly guy said:

  I've flyfished  for years

Recently I've decided to change things up gear wise 

Why change to a less productive method? 

3"-5" flies, similar to those used in the salt, like Seaducer or Deceiver,  or Gartside Gurgler;  floating #6 line;  6'-8' leader to 8#,  wade to about knee deep and position  such that the presentation is across and down, and less than 20'. Deliver  the fly above and beyond the fish with a splash then strip it a time or two as it swings. Turn the fish loose and try again.  

25 minutes ago, Fly guy said:

what else can I add to my arsenal or change when targeting these fish? 

#6-#2 flies in patterns that represent either baitfish or crawdads, thicker shorter leaders, noise and water disturbance

[WestCentralFisher]

The lures you described are fine starting points, and I'm surprised you're not having at least occasional success. Are you fishing bigger rivers like the middle Meramec regularly? Those can be tough from a walk and wade perspective, especially in a high water year like this one. Any place you can wade easily probably gets hammered. 

Smaller streams are usually easier in terms of catching at least a few fish. The far upper parts of the Meramec (above Maramec Spring), the upper Huzzah and Courtois above where most of the canoe rentals put in, the far upper Big Piney, and lower Little Piney are all decent wade streams. Or a million others. Just find a stretch of river where you can't find any rentals operating.

You won't find nearly as many in the riffles as you would trout fishing on the streams you describe,  but the oxygenated water just below them is good. Any cut banks, logs, boulders, or cover with any amount of current is likely to be good. The frog water, less so, but most smallie streams have a few largemouth too, and they'll often be in those areas. 

I grew up trout fishing on rivers, and lake fishing for largemouth. I only became a  halfway decent smallmouth fisherman when I realized your techniques need to be halfway between the two. You generally want good or at least perceptible current, and you still want to target the foam lines, but fishing around cover is still really important. And there is a giant brush pile in a deep, slow hole, you still want to take some casts there, even if there isn't much current to speak of.

Finally, sight fishing is not usually the most productive method. It can certainly work, but quite often by the time I am close enough to see them well enough to target them, they see me too, and the jig is up. I'm usually trying to work upstream and target fish before they have a good opportunity to see me, or I them. 

[Fly guy]

29 minutes ago, tjm said:

Why change to a less productive method? 

3"-5" flies, similar to those used in the salt, like Seaducer or Deceiver,  or Gartside Gurgler;  floating #6 line;  6'-8' leader to 8#,  wade to about knee deep and position  such that the presentation is across and down, and less than 20'. Deliver  the fly above and beyond the fish with a splash then strip it a time or two as it swings. Turn the fish loose and try again.  

#6-#2 flies in patterns that represent either baitfish or crawdads, thicker shorter leaders, noise and water disturbance

I'm changing because I want to learn more.  I started fly fishing at a young age after the standard zebco push button. Having a northern east coast father, we mainly chased trout. Being 40 years old I thought it would be nice to change things up.  Learn some new techniques and presentations, as well as  target fish I'm not used to targeting.  I definitely plan on fishing some of my articulated and larger streamer patterns. I definitely agree with the baitfish and crayfish patterns being able to elicit some hits.

[Fly guy]

36 minutes ago, WestCentralFisher said:

The lures you described are fine starting points, and I'm surprised you're not having at least occasional success. Are you fishing bigger rivers like the middle Meramec regularly? Those can be tough from a walk and wade perspective, especially in a high water year like this one. Any place you can wade easily probably gets hammered. 

Smaller streams are usually easier in terms of catching at least a few fish. The far upper parts of the Meramec (above Maramec Spring), the upper Huzzah and Courtois above where most of the canoe rentals put in, the far upper Big Piney, and lower Little Piney are all decent wade streams. Or a million others. Just find a stretch of river where you can't find any rentals operating.

You won't find nearly as many in the riffles as you would trout fishing on the streams you describe,  but the oxygenated water just below them is good. Any cut banks, logs, boulders, or cover with any amount of current is likely to be good. The frog water, less so, but most smallie streams have a few largemouth too, and they'll often be in those areas. 

I grew up trout fishing on rivers, and lake fishing for largemouth. I only became a  halfway decent smallmouth fisherman when I realized your techniques need to be halfway between the two. You generally want good or at least perceptible current, and you still want to target the foam lines, but fishing around cover is still really important. And there is a giant brush pile in a deep, slow hole, you still want to take some casts there, even if there isn't much current to speak of.

Finally, sight fishing is not usually the most productive method. It can certainly work, but quite often by the time I am close enough to see them well enough to target them, they see me too, and the jig is up. I'm usually trying to work upstream and target fish before they have a good opportunity to see me, or I them. 

Thanks for the tips! I've honestly have been avoiding the larger rivers as I can't wade above my waist because of a medical device. I like the little piney near lane springs, the courtois and huzzah I have yet to fish, but plan to soon. There are a couple of creeks that are close to me and the bourbeuse that I've been frequenting.

[WestCentralFisher]

I would try further down on the Little Piney. Milldam hollow on down. The Bourbeuse can be rewarding, but the smallies are scattered and sometimes relatively hard to locate, so it would be low on my list until you get more in the hang of things. Water clarity is also an added challenge. Lots of spotted bass, though.

[tjm]

35 minutes ago, Fly guy said:

we mainly chased trout.

Synthetic  fish, ain't they?  😉 Easy for the kids to learn on though, I gave the oldest son his first flyrod on his fifth birthday and he caught three RBT on our two mile walk down a northeast brook.  

I don't think you need any fancy articulated streamers, just the standard striped bass and tarpon stuff is perfect for stream bass. The resemblance to baitfish and crawdads should be in the location and style of presentation more than in any particular patterns. Get the large fly into the feeding zone and make it move water with some noise. 

If you insist on spin/spincasting, which I don't have the patience for in my old age,   only three lures I really used (although I tried others)  were a #2 marabou jig /16oz, original blue floating Rapala 5"  and a  rubber worm. Again it's where you present them. 

[Al Agnew]

One of the differences I've found between trout and smallmouth is that you can fish closer to trout.  How many times have you fished the eddy line or the drop off at the bottom of a riffle for trout from no more than 10 or 20 feet away?  In clear water, that simply doesn't work with smallmouth.  In clear wading streams, often you need to be making 20-30 yard casts.  If wading upstream, you need to be casting into the pool above from within the riffle, not waiting until you get into the pool.  Smallmouth feed aggressively, but they are also very wary and aware of what is going on around them.  On a stream like the upper Bourbeuse with its murky water, you can get by with casting closer, BUT even then, the fish might not be seeing you but they'll be hearing your feet crunch on the gravel bottom.

Other than that, without knowing exactly which streams you're fishing and watching you fishing them, it's tough to say what you're doing wrong.  This time of year, smallmouth should be easy to catch.  In warm water they feed actively and are not picky about what they eat.  The lures you're using should be producing at least some fish.  I will say that none of the lures you're fishing are ones I'd fish in wading size creeks, but that's just me.  When I go to one of my wade fishing creeks, I basically throw one small box in my pack with three or four walk the dog topwaters and maybe a smallish plopper type, and that's all I need.  Wade stealthily, make long casts, don't worry too much about accuracy because if the smallmouth don't know you're there, they'll sense and come after a lure 5-10 feet away from their holding spot.  Fish these topwaters fast and don't give them a chance to inspect them; you're seeking purely reaction strikes.

[tjm]

y'all should disregard any advice I may have given, cause I've been doing it all wrong. I rarely cast 12 yards,  more frequently 5-6 yards,  for years I had my fly line marked at 30' just to ensure that I didn't get carried away with casting. I do try to stay at least two rod lengths away from where I suspect the bass to be, just because that makes line handling easier.   I've only ever cast 30 yards in ponds and and the Atlantic, and it was rare even in those places. 

[Daryk Campbell Sr]

3 hours ago, tjm said:

y'all should disregard any advice I may have given, cause I've been doing it all wrong. I rarely cast 12 yards,  more frequently 5-6 yards,  for years I had my fly line marked at 30' just to ensure that I didn't get carried away with casting. I do try to stay at least two rod lengths away from where I suspect the bass to be, just because that makes line handling easier.   I've only ever cast 30 yards in ponds and and the Atlantic, and it was rare even in those places. 

Your style isn't wrong.  If you catch fish you're doing it right.  I appreciate all of the info sharing on here. 

As the old saying goes, there's more than one way to skin a cat.   I like to see and hear about all options.   

If one way was "The Best" we wouldn't have so many options in the stores.