Trout Unlimited Unveils Position On Warming

[jscheetz]

Well, what a fine way to start the new year, reading this post. Honestly, DC and Trav you guys have me in stitches with most of your posts - keep em up!! But we have Al and a few others who seem to have considered this from a scientific thinking standpoint.

I think someone mentioned the facts of permafrost decline and the glacial shrinkage etc etc - these are things that are not "opinions" or political talking points but events we can see empirically. So most views that I read - and I make it a point to read all I can - will agree that the trend is towards the planet warming. So the discussion seems to lie in the "who is causing it and what if anything can we do about it" area.

I am not a scientist (Although I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night) but I can certainly look back on history as we all can and see that as a species we have certainly caused some change to happen on this planet during our time here. Some for the better and some for the worst. However, usually the stuff that happens for the worst wasn't thought to be a bad thing at the time - and I guess that is my main point - I think that it is better to be cautious and look at the fact that we can't always see clearly enough into the future to predict what effect our current actions will have on things to come. So if we consider that we ARE causing some of the greenhouse effect, then why is this and what can we do about it. That seems like common sense to me. All but the fringe on this issue are not saying we all need to ride bicycles and not use electricity - but rather lets figure out what we can do, and lets start moving in a positive direction.

Phil, While it is under debate how much effect the recent uptick in fires can and will have on the warming trend - it is thought that one of the possible causes of so many fires lately is the warming of the planet - in basic terms, the spring starts sooner, so the plants emerge sooner, the summer lasts longer so the plants die and dry out sooner which causes much more opportunity for lightning strikes etc to set off fires (longer fire season between spring rains and winter snows = more chance for fires and more fuel in the way of more dry plants). The interesting thing is that they can study this historically by looking at tree rings and seeing dry and fire events in the life of a tree, and compare that with warming trends that have happened throughout the history of a region.

I did hear something that I thought was fireworks last night at midnight - that wasn't just you fishin was it Crappie?

Happy New Year all -

JS

[crappiefisherman]

UMMM

[Daddy Carp]

Hey JS, nice post! I think a lot of the forest fires are due alot to "over control and preservation" by the Dept of Interior. There is so much dense growth, it kills out at the bottom causing a fuel supply. If the naturally spawned fires were allowed to burn out, they would clean this out naturally. As it is we are "pack-rats" and want to save and horde everything. Not to mention "control freaks" who want to dictate use and control of everything, even Mother Nature, based on our personal feelings. Problem, Mother Nature disagrees and will take a few more Calif. mansions in the future until we "Get-it". The best way to Handle the Global Warming issue is to limit all Political campaign funde to $5,000 national, $2,000 state and $1,000 local. Place ads or personal appearances to tell who you are, what you're about, your qualifications. Most politicans I've ever met can honestly do this in 10 words or less. This takes the money rewarding for opinion or searches to justify a political opinion. Hence all that money could be put to finding the best way to clean up our air and invironment and continuing a comfortable productive existance in a warmer global atmosphere. It is happening, has been as you said since the "Ice age" how warm it will get, who knows. We have designed suits and craft to withstand the heat of space & reintry, shouldn,t be a problem. BUT, first we have to take the money factor out of it then people will stop beating their gums and drums as to whose old yellow dog pissed farther! Keep it going JS you're on the right road!

God Bless.....D.C.

And Ya! I saw Crappie last night too, he woke me up. Better be a crappie feed soon in the makin for the guys after all that noise he put out with his "fish sticks"!

[Al Agnew]

Most definitely big fires add CO2 to the atmosphere, and are a significant cause of global warming. The fires in the American West are bad enough, but fires in tropical areas to clear huge swathes of land slash and burn agriculture are much worse.

But you're talking another of the issues in which I have great interest, and that's the Western fires. It's an open question whether the current, continuing drought over much of the West is a result of global warming or not. It's a theory that would seem to have some validity that warmer weather, coupled with the drought, is making things worse. But the biggest problem with the fires is partly what Daddy Carp pointed out, too much fire protection, and partly in too much cutting, especially clear-cutting. The fact is that the Western forests were at one time very fire resistant. When they consisted of "old growth", big trees, those trees were either widely spaced with grass beneath them, or if more closely spaced, there was very little growth on the ground. So fires, while frequent in the West, were much more likely to stay on the ground and never spread into the raging crown fires we see today. The lower parts of big western conifers have very little growth and fire-resistant bark. The ground fires did little to affect the overall make-up of the forest. But when European settlers moved in and started cutting the forests, it opened them up and allowed lots of small trees and undergrowth to start. And the fire protection at all costs mindset of the Forest Service allowed the new growth to continue until you had second growth forests, very thick, with enough underbrush to give fires an avenue to the tops of the bigger trees. And now we're stuck in this cycle. Fires, if allowed to burn, are violent enough to kill too many bigger trees, further opening up the ground to more undergrowth. Look at Yellowstone Park now...where the fires were, you now have incredibly thick, low growth young trees, and unless they can survive without fire for the centuries needed to grow big and gradually thin to some semblance of "old growth", they are going to be disastrous fires waiting to happen for a long time.

Clear cuts are great for some species of wildlife, especially elk and whitetail deer, but too much cutting is what has really caused the fire problems we have in the West. It's a good thing that the Ozarks remains wet enough and has enough deciduous growth, or we'd have the same problems here, because OUR forests, due to cutting in the past, are also far thicker and lower than they once were.

[Crippled Caddis]

DC wrote:

<Most politicans I've ever met can honestly do this in 10 words or less>

DING! You are guilty of a Language Offense, First Class. Politician. And honesty should NEVER be used in the same sentence as they are contradictory terms. As such they are mutually cancelling and the sentence is incomplete and nonsensical.

This is a one-time warning. Further offenses will require you to open your tacklebox or fly boxes to unsupervised raids by non-offenders.

[jscheetz]

We have designed suits and craft to withstand the heat of space & reintry, shouldn,t be a problem.

DC ya gotta cut that out - I can't even hold my supper plate while reading this!!! You have just solved the global warming problem - fireproof suits for us all!!! Actually, come to think of it - when it's cold and I get my waders and vest on and a rain jacket...... kind of looks like it could be nuclear proof!

Yeah Al - I am in Yellowstone every year and the growth is pretty amazing since the 88 fires. But really there is no way to completely help if a fire that big gets going - near our place out there a couple of years ago there was a fire that burned over 200,000 acres and seeing that thing come down the mountain - there was no "thinning" that could have stopped it from burning. But certainly small trees are more vulnerable to heat than big trees so even trees that don't burn themselves when they get to close to the heat are more easily injured. I still think the higher fire starts are due to climate change - which will of course make it much harder for trees to become "mature" and turn into old growth.

We'll see what this season brings.

But you are right about the fires elsewhere being much greater and causing damage to the atmosphere. I am sure you have seen the views from space at all of the fires in South America - pretty amazing.

JS

[Daddy Carp]

My post did not mean that we could all wear space suits to bed, although there may come a day we should if the Global warms enough. It was to point out that if we turn our focus to dealing with the problem and how to make the best of it rather than squandering time & effort on whos politically most correct or right, we would be far better off in the future to come, be what it may! Rather than tie up space with pictures, I have enclosed a link to a site that explains my point well. People who have taken a positive approach to some very brutal conditions and created joy and beauty out of it for all to share. Please check it out, Wear a jacket, the temp is -45*f !!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa9bNPMJlZI just copy this address & paste it in your browser.

[snagged in outlet 3]

Has anyone seen the BBC Documentary called The Great Global Warming Swindle? It's a totally different view of the cause of global warming. Check it out. I think it's on Youtube now.

SIO3

[Trav]

DC

Im not supposed to wear my fire suit in bed? What will I tell my Girlfriend?

I think she finds it "Hot"...Haha