Squirrel Problems?

[Crippled Caddis]

Note to Phil: if you find this board inappropriate for this post do as you will but since it springs from 'jscheetz' wader problem I'm posting it here where it has a better chance of being seen by the majority. CC

'jscheetz' comments regarding squirrels eating his waders got me to thinking. (Under most circumstances a sign of danger to my own thin reputation and the safety of those standing nearby). If you feed birds or wildlife as many fishermen and outdoorsmen and women do in backyard or on a deck then you're going to attract something else----rodents. Mice, rats and, the bane of many a homeowner, the ubiquitous, attic invading, electrical wire chewing, wader eating squirrel. All rodents can and will chew on electrical wire insulation, leaving them bare and setting up a possibility of electrically ignited fires in homes, barns, autos and farm equipment so they are a hazard to both infrastructure and lives. They are also disease carriers of legendary repute and not something you want living inside your walls or attic. I also often see references on this board as well as others concerning pest birds such as Starlings, English Sparrows, feral Rock Doves (the domestic pigeon by proper nomenclature) as well as rodents, skunks, coons and 'possums decimating feed sources provided for songbirds and game species. Often extreme frustration with the situation is registered by the complainer regarding state or local ordinances regarding control methods or simply the impracticality of controlling predation with firearms due to safety considerations and/or complaints by gun-hating neighbors. I can give no advice concerning neighborhood anti-gun nuts, firearms use or legal implications under any circumstance, (that can be determined in each individual instance only by consulting local legal authorities and applicable local, state and national law and statute!) nor do I presume to advise concerning moral and legal implications regarding terminal removal of game or non-game species that can be said to be depredating. Moral considerations are between the individual and his concience and problem wildlife concerns should be taken to MDC for advice and any permits required under existing laws. Some urban regions prohibit airguns being fired inside city limits by local statute. Ultimately it is entirely the responsibiity of each individual to determine the legality and means of pest removal under prevailing circumstance and location. What I do have to offer is an area of expertise that I can share with the hope that it might provide the information needed by some under certain circumstances. I am what might pass in normal society as an 'airgun expert'. (Ask Dano for credibility) I've used them for @ 65 years. In the past 35-40 years I've bought, sold, repaired, collected, rebuilt, modifed, shot, hunted with extensively and just generally 'fooled around' with airguns as a hobby and a 'shed-behind-the-barn' business. While I no longer do repair work for the public I can and will offer advice to those on this board if they have questions that I can address from my somewhat narrow base of experience. Airgun industry research has for long indicated that domestic pest and vermin control is the reason given for the purchase of a great percentage of 'adult airguns' so there may be some that need a little help in selecting the proper tool.

My greatest area of knowledge lies with the classic domestically produced multi-pump pnuematics and CO2 powered airarms. I have more than a little experience with spring-powered airguns from around the world but certainly pose as no expert on the subject. Even so some areas of interest and concern to those just attempting to learn about the genre' are so clear that I can often offer valid general advice in regards to 'sproingers'. In broad general terms you should avoid anything built in countries other than Germany and Britain. If not you're treading a very slippery slope in regard to accuracy and advertised velocity claims. Period! To be a bit more specific try to avoid Spanish and Chinese guns. While you might be lucky and get a good one it's a crapshoot. To make it even more difficult to make a wise choice you should be aware that many famous names in American airguns and firearms are now selling Chinese, Spanish and Turkish products from those countries and others and stamped with the American makers name and trademark. That raises the ante on the crapshoot and places research needs on the shoulder of the buyer before buying a 'name' that may not reflect historical quality standards.

Let me make one thing abundantly clear----high quality imported airguns are NOT cheap! Quality (read accuracy!) costs---and always will. Therefore the alternative I prefer is reviving the old American built classics. While they too can be a bit of a gamble I know that if I start with a dependable name and a good model that my chance of winding up with a gun comparable in accuracy and power to a $300-$2000 imported German or English gun for @ half of that lowest cost number is very good indeed. And if, after investing the $ and effort I find that it doesn't meet my personal standards of accuracy there's always a ready nostalgia fueled market for them that will allow me to break even at worst and make a little sometimes. As long as I'm on the subject I might as well indulge a personal goal---should anyone have or find a Sheridan Model A or B or a Crosman Model 107/108 'Town & Country' or the 1923 Crosman 'front-pumper' please contact me---they are my personal 'Holy Grails' in collecting.

Regarding old 'Amuricun Arn' I can often give useful advice concerning (in order of expertise) Crosman, Benjamin, Sheridan and a few less well-known and even obscure makes such as Rochester and Plainsman. What I CANNOT advise on intelligently in general terms is the later models from domestic producers from the 'potmetal and plastic' era as I refuse to have anything to do with such utter trash. While I readily admit to an unbending opinion in such matters it is MY opinion and so long as my advice is free I prefer to choose how it is dispensed. ;o)

To narrow it down a lot I can offer cogent commentary on Model 101, 140, 160, 180, and 1400 series Crosman MSPs (multi stroke pnuematics) and CO2 powered airarms.

Models 312 & 342 Benjamins as well as Model 'C' & 'F' Sheridans also lie within my area of knowledge.

For those peripherally knowledgable about the enumerated makes and models you will have noticed that all models referenced are in either .22 caliber in Crosman & Benjamin or .20 caliber regarding Sheridan alone. The restriction to .20 & .22 caliber is not without reason. As hunter/killers the American gunning public, except for a very few old oddballs such as myself, are relative newcomers to airguns as hunting weapons, but our British kinsmen, restricted as they are to a small, densely populated island, are by comparison expert in their use on game. And, as such, they have a pragmatic and utterly practical rule-of-thumb concerning quarry and caliber that is well worth committing to memory if you would enter the world of airgunning with pest control or hunting parameters uppermost in mind: ".177 for feathers, .22 for fur". There is simply no way to pin it down more cogently or succinctly in my lengthy experience afield. For reference purposes should you find yourself getting involved with the airgunning hobby you will find the caliber argument one of those perennially argued discussions points with little agreement and NO resolutions. To make is easier and very simple just take the English experience as rote and you can save yourself (and, most importantly!---your quarry) much pain.

The case of the .20 caliber is a bit more complicated. Sheridan, when they set out to create the 'perfect' airgun, after much thought, research and soul-searching settled on .20 caliber as the best of both worlds. A lot of personal experience, testing, and hunting, over more years than I care to admit makes me think they 'got it right the 1st time'. 'Nuff said on that!

So if pest birds are your ONLY concern then a 'magnum' class airgun, defined as 12 ft. #s of energy or more, (even a standard velocity .22 rimfire exceeds 100 ' #s) .177 will handle the vast majority of your needs. BUT! A .20 or .22 will whack the feral feathered fellers with extreme prejudice and give you the needed power for furry predators should the need arise and your marksmanship warrant!

Me? I have 'em all! I like to make tiny holes in paper and for that purpose .177 reigns supreme! Why else would ALL international and Olympic shooting contests mandate the caliber? It just makes sense. Even if a 10 shot group all enters a single hole (which is often very near the case in Olympic competition!) one of .177 is a heckuva lot smaller than one of .220 and wins hands down! But for me it's a matter of economics---I can buy 500 rounds of the highest target grade .177 for almost the same $ as equivilent .22 caliber pellets. 'Cept for one thing-----because of the nature of target shooting .22s simply aren't made to the same quality standard as .177. That is NOT to say that extremely accurate field grade ammo isn't available in .20 & .22. Crosman 'Premiers', JSB 'Exacts' and Beeman 'Kodiaks' will give hand selected, individually packed-in-styrofoam, extremely expensive, German-made, Olympic grade wadcutters a real run for the money at target ranges and eclipse them entirely and embarrassingly at practical hunting ranges.

Practical hunting ranges. How to define? The 'instant, lights-out' kill zone on a Starling, mouse or ground squirrel size target is roughly 1/2". On a Gray or Fox squirrel or rabbit it's @ an inch. Much the same applys to a Turkeys' brain-pan. So 'hunting range' is ENTIRELY predicated on the combination of conditions, gun, ammo and shooting ability. In the final result the question truly devolves to this---"All circumstances considered, at what range can you and your gear make a surgically accurate, humane, 'lights-out' kill 100% of the time"? That's a pretty severe test, isn't it? But it's the only one with an iota of relevance. That obviously implies total familiarity and utter proficiency with your chosen weapon. But therein lies the fascination with airguns! Almost any venue---backyard, basement, barn, shop or even a long hall inside the house with a good pellet trap at the end can be a target range and, once the initial investment is amortized, shooting simply doesn't get much less expensive. And if you're a target shooter of centerfire or rimfire persuasion and think that airguns hold nothing of value for you I have only a single comment----you couldn't be more wrong if you worked at it deliberately! EVERY aspect of accuracy is embodied in all shooting no matter the range or the operating principle of the weapon so long as it is inherantly accurate! Breathing control, trigger control, sight picture management, ranging, ammo selection and on & on ad infinitum are encapsulated in microcosm with airguns. 'Get it right' with airguns and it translates directly to target range or hunting field. Absolutely nothing beats trigger time on target! For reference purposes look at what has happened within BR-50 in the last half decade.

Backing up once more to control of feathered pests on feeders there are a few considerations that should be reviewed:

.177 is sufficient if------

spring-powered guns are much quieter than all other operating principles

moderately powered springers (6 to 10 FPE) are legal 'stealth' guns only a dab short of silenced weapons and completely up to the task on 'feathers' given accuracy from system and user

'tuned' (i.e., blueprinted by a competent spring gun specialist for smoothness and accuracy with often an increase in velocity) moderately powered springers ARE stealth weapons by any definition!

Domestic MSPs don't HAVE to be pumped up to magnum levels of energy (and noise) to be effective at short range

SOME domestic MSPs such as the Crosman 140/1400 series and the Daisy 880 are just inherantly quieter because of the valving principles on which they operate!

Now!----having recognized the Daisy 880, a definitive 'potmetal & plastic' POS, I have to admit that I have encountered a few early models prior to the plactic recievers and pump levers that were paragons of quiet accuracy in both .177 & .22. But I must equally acknowledge that such examples were few and far between indeed. Another shining example of brilliant engineering subverted by pragmatic bean-counting. :-( (Should you be so fortunate as to possess an accurate 880, or the .22 version, with metal pump lever, brass compression tube and metal reciever clamshells, but need more than the embarrassingly anemic factory power level contact me off-list for advice.)

Insofar as fraudulently friendly furry foragers are concerned my recommendations are encapsulated in the short overview of caliber selection in the paragraphs above insofar as airguns are concerned. But, although a dedicated, lifetime lover of pnuematic powered arms, my best suggestion if your immediate vicinity, downrange safety, neighborly opinion and relevent law allows the choice they are still most efficiently and inexpensively controlled with target-grade, sub-sonic, hollow-point .22 rimfires in an accurate gun/ammo combo directed by a competent marksman. The Remington 'Sub-sonic' target-grade long rifle ammo is little if any louder than CCI CB caps but yields approximately 3 time the terminal energy on target and is FAR more accurate in most guns. The CCI CB caps cited cross my chronogrph screen at just under 700fps muzzle velocity giving @ 29fpe by a quick computation. I've had airguns that shoot faster, much harder and a LOT straighter too!

Disclaimer:

This announcement appears as a matter of record only. Void where prohibited. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental. Batteries not included. Contents may settle during shipment. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied.Your mileage may vary. Objects are closer than they appear. Opinions are those of the author and do not reflect those of the publication. Some restrictions apply. And all and any other lawyerly weasle phraseology. CC

[Trav]

Big red dogs might have problems climbing trees but they sure can keep the squirrels on thier toes. Haha, Beyond the contrary belief of the tree rats tenacity, they do have a learning curve. They will figure out that a yard has a predator. I for one dont like to put in the emotional investment of shooting them down. Living 1/2 a mile from my closest neighbor in the middle of the woods I would drive myself bonkers trying to get the large population of squirrels calling my hillside home.

Plus the dog will bury the evidence. Wink

[snagged in outlet 3]

Nice Crip.

I'm pneumatic by nature.

I had to dig out my Benjamin Model 310 to see excactly what the model # is. 177 cal and it has dispatched many, and I mean many, critters over the past 30 some odd years. I'm not sure where my gun falls in the quality area but it is deadly. It is by far the best Xmas present I ever got. Ranks above shotguns, flyrods and golf clubs. I don't know how many hours I've put in behind the trigger but they are best memory's.

Just now when I got it out, it pumps but won't hold air or build up pressure. It's been in my closet for at least 10 years but after reading your post I want to get it going again. Any ideas?

SIO3

[Gavin]

Hum, same think happened to my old squirrel killer (Crossman pnuematic). I figure the seals deteriorated over time. Thought about sending it back to the factory for service, but I havent taken any action on it yet. Might have to do that.

[bowfin47]

Neat post... i enjoyed it.

Now, to find out what my nephew did with my old Crossman and my father's Beemans...

[Crippled Caddis]

<I had to dig out my Benjamin Model 310 to see excactly what the model # is. 177 cal and it has dispatched many, and I mean many, critters over the past 30 some odd years. I'm not sure where my gun falls in the quality area but it is deadly. It is by far the best Xmas present I ever got. Ranks above shotguns, flyrods and golf clubs. I don't know how many hours I've put in behind the trigger but they are best memory's.>

You have a somewhat rare bird there, a smoothbore BB caliber Benjie. It was built from 1957 'til 1974 along with the rifled .177 cal. Model 317 and .22 cal. 312. I have the later model 340 which companioned the 347 & 342 from @ 1974 onward for many years. Good with pellets to a little over 10 yards and not too accurate with BBs at any range at all, but most accurate with the Daisy Match BB (that is ground perfectly round, somewhat expensive and must be bought directly from Daisy with a valid reason such as sponsoring a youth team) or such has been my experience with my 340.

FWIW, the Daisy Model 499 match grade BB gun is amazingly accurate with the match BBs at the distance they are designed to function. 5 yards. Again, as with the Match grade BBs, they don't sell them to 'just anybody'. Even my Red Ryder improves enormously with the match grade BBs. If you have a child or grandchild you want to teach to shoot find a way to get your hands on a 499 and the good ammo! Or bite the bullet and spend the money up front to get their 853 Single stroke pnuematic(SSP). It comes with a Lothar Walther barrel and will stack match grade pellets in the same hole every time the shooter does his part. Nothing with a Walther barrel that shoots as good as that little Daisy comes cheap so get ready for sticker shock if you look it up. But look at it like this----after your young shooter 'outgrows' it you may get to keep it. It'll make you feel good every time you pick it up and look at paper with terminal intent.;o)

At this juncture it might be a good idea to point out that virtually all match grade guns are expensive---some unbelievably so---and shoot between 500 feet per second (FPS) and 650 FPS. The common, waisted 'Diablo' pellet used in competition is most aerodynamically stable in that velocity range at the international airgun competition distance of 10 meters. Field grade guns commonly shoot from @ 650FPS to just over 1000FPS. High velocities are the most used selling feature these days since virtually no new shooters realize that pellets have a preferred velocity range for accuracy. The one biggest No-No is pushing a pellet super-sonic, generally considered to be @ 1100FPS at sealevel. Passing thru the speed of sound destabilizes a waisted pellet both going and coming and is a virtually certain way to miss what you're shooting at. Guns that shoot heavy pellets (14 grains or more) betweem 650 & 850FPS seem to always be the most accurate and deadly hunting weapons.

My own favorite birdfeeder defender is an elderly Walther LG-55 target gun. Designed and first built from 1955 for many years it won the German national championships (at that time functionally the World Championship) so many times it was ridiculous and is still winning in the hands of competent shooters in obscure regional matches.

My gun is a refugee from a bunch of guns bought from Walther as marksmanship trainers by the Turkish Army. Bought and brought into the states by a military surplus dealer some years ago the guns were as ragged looking as you can imagine something used by Turkish soldiers could be. Even after rehabbing the exterior my 2 are still less than impressive in appearance, but it is what the barrel can do that impresses. After untold 1000s of rounds, mistreatment, abuse and neglect in a sandy desert environment the guns are still more accurate than the owner can ever hope for. Walther LG-55s and thier competitor, the Weirauch HW-55 can still be had from other airgun hobbiests. In a collector gun condition is everything so the better guns can get expensive, but occasionally an 'appearance challenged' gun like mine will come along for $300 or even less. You can also pay up to a grand for a great specimen. That oughta make the Daisy 853 look less expensive.;o)

<Just now when I got it out, it pumps but won't hold air or build up pressure. It's been in my closet for at least 10 years but after reading your post I want to get it going again. Any ideas?>

I don't suggest repairing the older guns like your Benjie with the internal valve that requires a special tool unless I know the individual and their mechanical apptitude. I normally refer them to someone that I trust deeply, Ron Sauls of Bryan and Assoc. in Anderson, S.C. You can access his website at:

<http://www.bryanandac.com/> or call him at: 864 - 261 - 6810. He specializes in the repair and supply of NOS or reproduction parts for the older American classics from ALL makers. If you DO feel competent to repair your own he sells the kit with all needed parts for @ $25 and the tool for between $10 & $15. HTH, CC

[ollie]

You wanna talk BB guns huh? I used to work in Daisy QC for over 5 years. Don't buy them under any circumstances. Just my opinion after working there. After shooting many numerous brands I would disagree with you on the spanish models. Well, at least the Gamo brand. They use to be a very good gun unless something has changed with them in the last 5 years. Personally, I wouldn't own a German one either from the test we did on them. The CZ guns were pretty nice though. We had a gentleman working there at the time that sighted in guns for the Olympic team. Man could that guy shoot! I will say I'm sure there are many other brands out there we didn't test, but we did test the majority out there on the market before 2003. BTW, we also tested many different brands of shot and even the higher price competition shot from overseas didn't always meet specs. They were more consistent, but they didn't always past our testing. The Crossman shot is the best for the money IMO. Once again, DON'T buy the Daisy shot, that is how most BB guns jam, due to oversized shot.

[Crippled Caddis]

<You wanna talk BB guns huh? I used to work in Daisy QC for over 5 years. Don't buy them under any circumstances. Just my opinion after working there.>

I pretty well agree with the exception of the 499 & the Walther barrelled match guns.

<After shooting many numerous brands I would disagree with you on the spanish models. Well, at least the Gamo brand. They use to be a very good gun unless something has changed with them in the last 5 years.>

Gamo has been raising their reputation in recent years but they still have a long way to go. You happened to get a good one, more an oddity than an average in earlier years. The Model 126 Olympic gun by El Gamo that Daisy sold for a few years was very accurate indeed and placed well at the '84 Olympics in Calif. IIRC. But it DID have a Walther barrel. I managed to talk Daisy into selling me one of the last 2 they had kept as 'loaners' several years before they moved from AR to MO. And it was quality all the way! The worst 'hits' on El Gamo results from an advertising program that quotes velocities shot with pellets made of reconstituted mouse farts rather than lead. In other words they lie thru their teeth! But from my own standpoint and that of everyone who likes to tinker with and/or maintain their own guns the importer will not sell parts to either the public or independent repair stations. In other words if you want an El Gamo repaired you have no choice of where or by whom---it's El Gamo or suck hind tit.

<Personally, I wouldn't own a German one either from the test we did on them.>

The German guns, Diana (sold here and branded as RWS) and Weirauch (sold here and branded as Beeman) have a well-deserved reputation for accuracy and durability. RWS and Beeman however are busily destroying their own reputations by adding Chinese and Spanish guns to their product lines. Beeman, once the quality standard for airguns in the US, has almost completely reversed the reputation that Dr. Robt. Beeman worked so hard to establish only to have the new owner, who promised to maintain the Beeman standards of excellence, start prostituting his reputation as soon as the $ changed hands and the papers were signed.

<The CZ guns were pretty nice though.>

I'm a big fan of their medium powered break-barrel guns & rimfires. In my book the best buy on the market on an accuracy per dollar basis! IMO the CZ/Brno barrels are 2nd only to Walther and that by a fine margin. I have a CZ200 'Junior' 'practice gun'. In other words not quite of full-bore Olympic grade quality. But I've never shot a finer barrel. If times get rough and I have to sell everything I own it'll be among the last to go---if it does at all.

<The Crosman shot is the best for the money IMO.>

I've had many friends on the 'inside' of Daisy over the years. One once told me about attending some big BB competition. Somehow their ammo got lost in transit and the night before the big shoot they raided all the Wal-Marts in a wide radius and bought them out of Crosman 'Copperhead' BBs. As he admitted it was better than their Match shot anyway. I haven't found that to be true of the case of Match BBs I got some years ago. I certainly hope they're still making it and the 499.

<Once again, DON'T buy the Daisy shot, that is how most BB guns jam, due to oversized shot.>

I thoroughly agree! Every BB gun I ever had brought to me to be cleared contained a mishapen Daisy BB jammed in the barrel. I've never seen one with a jammed Crosman. Never.

[jdmidwest]

Good article. I too like the air rifles to keep the neighbors guessing whos shooting all the critters. I currently own 10 air powered and 3 CO2 weapons. I have 4 Crosman 140's, a Crosman 120, and a Daisy Powerline 822 in .22 caliber, all pump up rifles in various states of repair and refurb. I have a Benjamin 347, Powerline 880, and an RWS Model 34 in .177. I have a pump up Crosman 1377 pistol. I have a Crosman 1008 and Crosman 357 CO2 pellet pistol and a Daisy 15T CO2 BB pistol. Last, but not least, A Red Ryder BB Gun from when I was a kid, my first..

My favorites would have to be the 140's or the RWS. The 140 has taken alot of game and pests from my younger days. Target practice was blackbirds over the hog feeders. I have killed a few rabbits, crows, squirrels, and several other things with the 140. The RWS is even more deadly and is the weapon of choice now when rabbits invade the garden and neighbors are still sleeping.

The Daisy 880 is my daughters first gun, I gave it to her for Christmas this year. She is 12 and is getting to be a pretty good shot.

The only production guns of today that equal the ones of old are the RWS and Beemans. Most of the others are crippled in power compared to the old pumpups.

[ollie]

Yea, I tried to buy and steal a 499, but could get no where with anyone on the deal. Only Jaycees and competition could get their hands on one of those. Daisy just plain and simple didn't want the expense of new tooling for guns and shot. We were already getting alot of guns overseas and the ones we assembled in Neosho had most parts made overseas. Tough to control quality with suppliers 1000 miles away. If you only knew what I have seen when it goes to the quality side of the gun.

When we where importing the Gamo products we at least stood behind them. I do understand it is different now that they are on their own. Now, the only guns I remember testing from Walther was a Colt wanna be that leaked CO2 just about every time. Of course a lot of pistols that have a CO2 cartridge leak at some time. Simple fix unless they have come up with a better design.

I have an old Daisy 880 made back in '72 that shoots great and I wouldn't trade it for anything. Back when the quality was great.