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Phil Lilley

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Everything posted by Phil Lilley

  1. I'm writing a fishing report for the Kansas City Star this morning. The deadline is today at noon. But because of the timing of this report, most of it is speculation on my part. Why? Because conditions have changed in the last 24 hours, and they will change again in the next 24 hours. Let me try to explain. On May 1, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers opened five spill gates at Table Rock Dam, releasing 5,000 cubic feet per second of water to make up for a turbine that was down. The combined flow was 15,000 c.f.s.. This has been the release rate every day up until yesterday at 1 p.m. when officials shut those gates as well as one turbine. Last night, they shut down all turbines -- so zero generation. Big change. Today, we will have several rounds of storms move through the area dumping an estimated one to four inches of rain on our watershed. That will send lake levels up, and will force the Corps to start the flow again. The big questions are how much rain and how much flow? Beaver Lake is at 1,126 feet, five feet over power pool. Table Rock is pretty much at power pool since it is recorded now as 916-917 feet. But officials have shown they're not messing around with any water over power pool on Table Rock, releasing at least 15,000 c.f.s. of water if the lake goes over that power pool mark. Beaver, on the other, hand historically has held water right up until near flood stage which is 1,130 feet. What does slower generation mean on Taneycomo? For most fishermen it means easier fishing. Easier because there's less water to deal with --- less flow, less depth. But there's something else to mess with your mind . . . colder water. With no spill gates, the water coming through the turbines is about 46 degrees. This is about 10 degrees colder than the combined flow of gates and turbines we've been seeing. Will that slow down the bite? It may for a short time, but I wouldn't worry about it too much. The change in flow will make trout move and adapt, which may slow the bite down a bit, too. I fished last evening after the gates closed and found fishing pretty good, not great, but good. I fished basically from the dam to just past the Narrows (all in the trophy area) and caught rainbows consistently on mainly a white jig. They didn't want a darker jig. Of course, our trout have had a ton of food to eat all winter and spring so they're all beefed up. We started reporting that drifting scuds was the ticket earlier in the spring, and for the last couple of weeks we've had a run on the flies. I think there's a ton of people that thought a scud was a missile -- ones who had never used a fly before, much less drifted one like a night crawler. But we've sold over a thousand of the bugs this month, and I don't think the fly is going to lose its effectiveness any time soon. Side note: If you're a fly tyer and want to tie scuds for our shop, please let us know!!! I could go on and report on what has been working, but it's hard because I don't know what our water condition will be in the coming days. I will say if the flow stays down -- less than 15,000 c.f.s. -- use the same thing that's been working but with less weight. Same jigs but smaller. Rig some rods with two-pound line because the smaller 1/16th- and 1/32nd-ounce jigs will start working. One thing that's great about less water -- dock fishing should be decent! Easier for sure. And anglers who like to wade below the dam will have more options. Stay tuned! View full article
  2. I'm writing a fishing report for the Kansas City Star this morning. The deadline is today at noon. But because of the timing of this report, most of it is speculation on my part. Why? Because conditions have changed in the last 24 hours, and they will change again in the next 24 hours. Let me try to explain. On May 1, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers opened five spill gates at Table Rock Dam, releasing 5,000 cubic feet per second of water to make up for a turbine that was down. The combined flow was 15,000 c.f.s.. This has been the release rate every day up until yesterday at 1 p.m. when officials shut those gates as well as one turbine. Last night, they shut down all turbines -- so zero generation. Big change. Today, we will have several rounds of storms move through the area dumping an estimated one to four inches of rain on our watershed. That will send lake levels up, and will force the Corps to start the flow again. The big questions are how much rain and how much flow? Beaver Lake is at 1,126 feet, five feet over power pool. Table Rock is pretty much at power pool since it is recorded now as 916-917 feet. But officials have shown they're not messing around with any water over power pool on Table Rock, releasing at least 15,000 c.f.s. of water if the lake goes over that power pool mark. Beaver, on the other, hand historically has held water right up until near flood stage which is 1,130 feet. What does slower generation mean on Taneycomo? For most fishermen it means easier fishing. Easier because there's less water to deal with --- less flow, less depth. But there's something else to mess with your mind . . . colder water. With no spill gates, the water coming through the turbines is about 46 degrees. This is about 10 degrees colder than the combined flow of gates and turbines we've been seeing. Will that slow down the bite? It may for a short time, but I wouldn't worry about it too much. The change in flow will make trout move and adapt, which may slow the bite down a bit, too. I fished last evening after the gates closed and found fishing pretty good, not great, but good. I fished basically from the dam to just past the Narrows (all in the trophy area) and caught rainbows consistently on mainly a white jig. They didn't want a darker jig. Of course, our trout have had a ton of food to eat all winter and spring so they're all beefed up. We started reporting that drifting scuds was the ticket earlier in the spring, and for the last couple of weeks we've had a run on the flies. I think there's a ton of people that thought a scud was a missile -- ones who had never used a fly before, much less drifted one like a night crawler. But we've sold over a thousand of the bugs this month, and I don't think the fly is going to lose its effectiveness any time soon. Side note: If you're a fly tyer and want to tie scuds for our shop, please let us know!!! I could go on and report on what has been working, but it's hard because I don't know what our water condition will be in the coming days. I will say if the flow stays down -- less than 15,000 c.f.s. -- use the same thing that's been working but with less weight. Same jigs but smaller. Rig some rods with two-pound line because the smaller 1/16th- and 1/32nd-ounce jigs will start working. One thing that's great about less water -- dock fishing should be decent! Easier for sure. And anglers who like to wade below the dam will have more options. Stay tuned!
  3. Phil Lilley

    Flooded!

    Back in 1981, we looked at the old Red Eleven Resort to buy. It had been flooded numerous times and had a mold problem. But it also had a rich history of hosting big bass tournaments. We opted not to buy. Two years later we purchased a resort - also in a flood plain. We've had minor flooding 5 times. Maybe we should look at a mountain top retreat!
  4. May be Bull Shoals... who knows.
  5. About 1 pm the Corp shut the gates off and one turbine. Level is down to 706 feet. Rain tomorrow. 1-4 inches. This is short-lived.
  6. Shane texted me the other day and asked... MDC hadn't seen anything, only rumor.
  7. What's everybody getting in and around Beaver and Table Rock? This shows 4 inches plus but mostly just out of the watershed.
  8. Don Frank does all our mounting... has done the last 3 state record browns. He's in KC
  9. Montana Creek is only a few miles outsiide Talkeenta and real close to Peter's house. This part of the creek is easily accessed so it's fished pretty hard by locals and tourist. But we found fish. We walked up this evening, started about 8:30 pm. We found a few chum and king salmon starting to spawn but not many rainbows or grayling. The creek is closed to salmon fishing. We tried a few deeper pools and runs. I caught a 12 inch grayling on a purple wooly bugger in one of them. After 90 minutes of fishing, we decided to head back down towards the bridge. We came across a run that we hadn't fished and found a bunch of chum salmon actively spawning. And we found rainbows too. We ended up with 8 rainbows, the biggest measuring close to 19 inches caught by Peter. We caught them on mainly beads, fishing behind the salmon beds.
  10. This was 2014. I'm having to repost some articles because I'm changing server hosts.... it's complicated.
  11. Peter and I set off yesterday to explore a creek he had only fished a tiny bit and only close to a bridge that give access to it, Kroto Creek south of Talkeetna about 20 miles. There are dozens and dozens of creeks like Kroto in this area, too many to explore all of them. Some have lots of fish and some don't have many at all. Some are small and some are pretty big. Most are clear streams but each has it's own water color. Kroto's water was tea color, stained by the minerals in the soil and sand it comes from. It look much like the Pere Marquette River in Michigan, the river Peter introduced me to back in 1985. Parking the truck near the bridge, we started our hike upstream. I looked for the bear trail along the bank--there was none. I guess that was a good sign there weren't many bears... but it made moving up the creek tough because the creek's bottom was larger, slick rocks covered with moss. Add that with the dark water and you have a tough time staying on your feet. Alaska banned felt soled wader boots (like Missouri). Both Peter and I barked at that rule while stumbling along. Every 40 yards or so we'd come to a break in the stream where it would shallow up into a gravel bed and king salmon would be doing their spawning dance. The smallness of the stream made these giants look even bigger, some appearing to be well over 40 pounds. The dark brown water couldn't hide their bright red colors and they frequently came blowing out of the water, sparing for the chance to win first position on the bed. Targeting salmon on most of these creeks is prohibited but fishing for trout is allowed. It's a tricky line, one that we were careful not to cross. We were using 5 weight fly rods, 6 pound tippet and small nymphs and streamers. Anyone trying to hook a king with this gear would be nuts! But the problem was that it is a small stream and most of the trout and grayling were going to be behind the spawning beds feeding on eggs from the kings. So you have to drift your small egg fly or bead through the beasts to get to your target fish. And yes, we did hook a king or two and yes, we lost our flies after a 10 second fight, most times. We made our way upriver looking for our rainbows and grayling but found none. I tried an elk hair caddis (dry fly) and did catch some small salmon fry. So much to our disappointment, Kroto was a bust. We found a trail to a nearby road and hiked out to the bridge. Not to be out done, Peter took me to one of his favorite rivers in that area which wasn't far from Kroto. We actually drove over it to get to Kroto-- Moose Creek. It was a bigger stream, the same tea color but not quite as dark, but the bottom was mostly sand and small gravel which made walking it a dream. We hiked in at a private access trail to the creek and started fishing. The first bend we came to looked promising. I had a bead (egg) tied on and Peter told me to run it through the hole below the beds. First cast, first rainbow. Cool! We moved along pretty quick, only drifting our flies through each hole a few times. Peter said there was a lot of water to cover and tons of holes and pockets to fish. It was tough not sitting and working these spots because all of them looked great. We would pick up a rainbows or grayling at most of the spots. I switched up flies several times because I wanted to try the dry flies again and some streamers I'd brought. Peter was throwing a streamer with an egg bead just above the fly, like an egg sucking leach. He'd throw it in the hole and wiggle it, pulling it through and out with his rod tip. There wasn't enough room to make a full cast and strip-- the river just wasn't wide enough and the holes were small. His stream was weighted enough to get the fly down quick, into the hole, or he'd keep it high in the water and the fish would come up and nail it. The largest rainbow was about 18 inches but most were around 13. We caught quite a few grayling that averaged 11 inches, the biggest about 15. There were both kings and chum salmon in the creek, along with a few pinks. Most of the salmon had not started spawning yet. We ended up with about 45 fish on our 3 hour jaunt on Moose Creek. Peter said that wasn't a bad trip but it can be much better. The creek is packed full of fish. He actually said a mid day trip with a bright sun is the best conditions for fishing in those dark colored creeks. We had a dark, overcast day yesterday.
  12. This has been one wet and cold spring here in the Ozarks! But we are not complaining because there are many regions suffering adverse conditions . . . and we know what flooding is like! With all the rain we expect to see generation for a long time. Both Table Rock and Beaver Lakes are high — not flooding — but high enough to warrant 15,000 cubic feet per second releases from Table Rock. That equates to four full turbines, but one turbine is still off line, so officials are releasing 5,000 c.f.s. over the spill gates. That’s making trout fishing very rewarding here. Why? The water coming over the top is about 60 degrees, and the water running through the turbines is about 44 degrees. Our trout like the warmer water as well as the bugs in Lake Taneycomo. There are big midge hatches every day, and the fish are absolutely full of scuds (freshwater shrimp.) Plus we’re witnessing a few threadfin shad come over the spill gates. Fishing is good out of boats but not so good from the bank or docks. The water is high and fast and it’s tough to get a good presentation to the fish from a stationery position. One needs to be out drifting to have a chance to catch anything right now. Catching has honestly picked up the last few days. Before that, it seemed like the trout went into hiding. Even drifting in front of our dock is good. Saturday morning we watched a group in our pontoons land a double — that’s two anglers with fish on at the same time! Duane Doty works for us and guides here, too. On many of his trips, he’s splitting his time between throwing jigs, drifting scuds and shad flies, and throwing jerk baits. But with a friend Saturday morning, he started early and fished through the rain. They boated 40 trout on his signature custom jerk bait. It’s the body of a Megabass 110 plus but painted to look like either a sculpin or a brown trout. Most of Duane Doty’s fishing is in the trophy area. We’ve been doing exceptionally well drifting scuds close to the bottom. We’re drifting between the dam all the way down to Short Creek, but the trout are not liking them below Short Creek. But even from Fall Creek down, we’re seeing some really nice-sized rainbows, up to 18 inches long. Stay in the middle of the lake, not on the bluff side when drifting and use a #4 split shot, either on line line up from the scud or replace the bell weight on a drift rig, assuming you’re using four-pound line. You may not feel the bottom, but this arrangement will keep your flies from gathering algae from the bottom and gumming up your chances of catching a fish. Use a good-sized scud — #12, #10 or even a #8. Gray is working well, but also try an olive or tan scud. Use a scud that has some ultraviolet flash tied in for when the day turns sunny. From the dam down, use a #5 split shot. It’s a little heavier than a #4, and you’ll need it to keep close to the bottom. Be patient. Let your offering get to the bottom gradually. The takes are subtle but sure. If you want to keep a limit of fish, fish the trophy area and keep rainbows a little less than 12 inches. They eat just fine. I’ve been having fairly good results throwing jigs lately. Again, catching is getting better and better. White is fairly good but only up close to the cable below the dam. I’d switch to brown, black or sculpin when drifting past the first island below the dam. I’m also using 3/32nd-ounce Lilleys’ jigs — not 1/8th ounce — and having better luck. It seems like the slower I work it, letting it sink slowly, the better. An 1/8th-ounce just sinks too fast, and I’m not getting bit as well. Now this does depend on the wind. If it’s too windy, you have to use an 1/8th-ounce. I’m using four-pound line when throwing either jig. I’m working the bluff bank from Lookout to Fall Creek, throwing into the slow areas, eddies along the deep channel bank. That’s where the fish are holding, and it’s been incredibly fun to see the fish chase and take the jig because the water is so clear. View full article
  13. This has been one wet and cold spring here in the Ozarks! But we are not complaining because there are many regions suffering adverse conditions . . . and we know what flooding is like! With all the rain we expect to see generation for a long time. Both Table Rock and Beaver Lakes are high — not flooding — but high enough to warrant 15,000 cubic feet per second releases from Table Rock. That equates to four full turbines, but one turbine is still off line, so officials are releasing 5,000 c.f.s. over the spill gates. That’s making trout fishing very rewarding here. Why? The water coming over the top is about 60 degrees, and the water running through the turbines is about 44 degrees. Our trout like the warmer water as well as the bugs in Lake Taneycomo. There are big midge hatches every day, and the fish are absolutely full of scuds (freshwater shrimp.) Plus we’re witnessing a few threadfin shad come over the spill gates. Fishing is good out of boats but not so good from the bank or docks. The water is high and fast and it’s tough to get a good presentation to the fish from a stationery position. One needs to be out drifting to have a chance to catch anything right now. Catching has honestly picked up the last few days. Before that, it seemed like the trout went into hiding. Even drifting in front of our dock is good. Saturday morning we watched a group in our pontoons land a double — that’s two anglers with fish on at the same time! Duane Doty works for us and guides here, too. On many of his trips, he’s splitting his time between throwing jigs, drifting scuds and shad flies, and throwing jerk baits. But with a friend Saturday morning, he started early and fished through the rain. They boated 40 trout on his signature custom jerk bait. It’s the body of a Megabass 110 plus but painted to look like either a sculpin or a brown trout. Most of Duane Doty’s fishing is in the trophy area. We’ve been doing exceptionally well drifting scuds close to the bottom. We’re drifting between the dam all the way down to Short Creek, but the trout are not liking them below Short Creek. But even from Fall Creek down, we’re seeing some really nice-sized rainbows, up to 18 inches long. Stay in the middle of the lake, not on the bluff side when drifting and use a #4 split shot, either on line line up from the scud or replace the bell weight on a drift rig, assuming you’re using four-pound line. You may not feel the bottom, but this arrangement will keep your flies from gathering algae from the bottom and gumming up your chances of catching a fish. Use a good-sized scud — #12, #10 or even a #8. Gray is working well, but also try an olive or tan scud. Use a scud that has some ultraviolet flash tied in for when the day turns sunny. From the dam down, use a #5 split shot. It’s a little heavier than a #4, and you’ll need it to keep close to the bottom. Be patient. Let your offering get to the bottom gradually. The takes are subtle but sure. If you want to keep a limit of fish, fish the trophy area and keep rainbows a little less than 12 inches. They eat just fine. I’ve been having fairly good results throwing jigs lately. Again, catching is getting better and better. White is fairly good but only up close to the cable below the dam. I’d switch to brown, black or sculpin when drifting past the first island below the dam. I’m also using 3/32nd-ounce Lilleys’ jigs — not 1/8th ounce — and having better luck. It seems like the slower I work it, letting it sink slowly, the better. An 1/8th-ounce just sinks too fast, and I’m not getting bit as well. Now this does depend on the wind. If it’s too windy, you have to use an 1/8th-ounce. I’m using four-pound line when throwing either jig. I’m working the bluff bank from Lookout to Fall Creek, throwing into the slow areas, eddies along the deep channel bank. That’s where the fish are holding, and it’s been incredibly fun to see the fish chase and take the jig because the water is so clear.
  14. Lake Taneycomo has had non-stop generation for months and on top of that we've had at least 5,000 cfs of water over the spill gates for weeks so our bug population has exploded! Midges and scuds are our trout's main source of food for the most part so we're taking advantage of that. Drifting large scud patterns are the way to fish Taneycomo right now, at least the upper 4 miles of the lake. This video basically shows how simple it is to do and how well it works. Here's a video showing how to rig 2 scuds for drifting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfKJd...
  15. Jumper could have ended up in the prop... very lucky.
  16. Quick and concise... recent rains have brought our lakes up to levels which warrant some concern. Beaver Lake is now approaching 1125.5 feet, only 4.5 feet from its flood pool while Table Rock hovers at 920 feet, that magical level that calls for flood gates and flows at 20,000 c.f.s.. But Table Rock Dam is now running 3 turbines full while one turbine is down for maintenance so 5 spill gates are open 1 foot each to make up for the 4th turbine, equaling 15,000 c.f.s of flow. Four gates were open for about 24 hours yesterday when Table Rock's level reached 920.3 feet but dropped below 920 feet this morning. All the while, Bull Shoals is rising and is now at 672.7 feet, almost 10 feet higher than a week ago. Taney's water temperature is 54 degrees on the spill side, 44 degrees on the turbine side. When the extra gates were open we saw 60 degree water and a push of threadfin shad, just not as many as we'd like to see. I think we got a deposit of warm water fish too, white bass, walleye and small mouth bass. White jigs have not taken off like we would have hoped with the spill gates open but fishing is fairly good. Some are fishing a 1/32nd ounce white jig under a float 10-12 feet deep the first 3 miles of the lake while others are throwing 1/8th to 3/32nd ounce jigs straight, 4-pound line. I'm also using our sculpin/peach jigs and doing pretty good too. Spoons - silver Cleo or Boyaunt - are working well too. Work the eddies all the way down to Fall Creek using an 1/8th ounce earth color jigs like black, brown or sculpin. Below Fall Creek, drift minnows, night crawlers and Berkley Powerworm in pink, red or while on the bottom using drift rigs. The word is the trout are not in the creeks right now for some reason but if you're out and want to try, I would because they really should be in there. The water isn't going to be as fast down at the Landing so fishing down there will be easier. With this high water, watch where you're drifting and stay mid lake. Don't anchor in current and wear a life jacket if you're at all uncomfortable in swift water.
  17. Quick and concise... recent rains have brought our lakes up to levels which warrant some concern. Beaver Lake is now approaching 1125.5 feet, only 4.5 feet from its flood pool while Table Rock hovers at 920 feet, that magical level that calls for flood gates and flows at 20,000 c.f.s.. But Table Rock Dam is now running 3 turbines full while one turbine is down for maintenance so 5 spill gates are open 1 foot each to make up for the 4th turbine, equaling 15,000 c.f.s of flow. Four gates were open for about 24 hours yesterday when Table Rock's level reached 920.3 feet but dropped below 920 feet this morning. All the while, Bull Shoals is rising and is now at 672.7 feet, almost 10 feet higher than a week ago. Taney's water temperature is 54 degrees on the spill side, 44 degrees on the turbine side. When the extra gates were open we saw 60 degree water and a push of threadfin shad, just not as many as we'd like to see. I think we got a deposit of warm water fish too, white bass, walleye and small mouth bass. White jigs have not taken off like we would have hoped with the spill gates open but fishing is fairly good. Some are fishing a 1/32nd ounce white jig under a float 10-12 feet deep the first 3 miles of the lake while others are throwing 1/8th to 3/32nd ounce jigs straight, 4-pound line. I'm also using our sculpin/peach jigs and doing pretty good too. Spoons - silver Cleo or Boyaunt - are working well too. Work the eddies all the way down to Fall Creek using an 1/8th ounce earth color jigs like black, brown or sculpin. Below Fall Creek, drift minnows, night crawlers and Berkley Powerworm in pink, red or while on the bottom using drift rigs. The word is the trout are not in the creeks right now for some reason but if you're out and want to try, I would because they really should be in there. The water isn't going to be as fast down at the Landing so fishing down there will be easier. With this high water, watch where you're drifting and stay mid lake. Don't anchor in current and wear a life jacket if you're at all uncomfortable in swift water. View full article
  18. Just found out they finished 9th over all... that's 9th out of 320.
  19. I've pinned this topic because I believe it's going to be an ongoing issue through the summer.
  20. Did I see you around Moonshine yesterday?
  21. I had the honor today to captain a couple of Jr High boys from Springfield in the aforementioned tournament today on Table Rock. I had William and Sam Kuzemka in my boat. We launched out of State Park, first cast at 6:35 a.m. on the first point NW of the ramp close to the Branson Belle. They started out throwing a swim bait (grub) but I quickly switched them to a ned and it was on. They fished my smallmouth banks in Jakes, Powerline and Clevenger Coves... all the ones I could remember. I don't think I got over there any last spring so I was going off my long-time memory. Set the boat in 16-20 feet most of the time until the fog burned off about 10 a.m., then we backed out to 30 feet. I had them fish the bottom although every 3rd or 4th cast came back with the green slime. They had about 13 keepers, all smallies expect one spot. We culled a couple of 16-inchers and had one kicker brown about 3.5 pounds. All bass except the spot appeared to have spawned - they had no pouches at all.... but what do I know, I'm a trout guy. Had may be the same number of shots plus 3-4 nice gogs (which I'm going back for this week!!). The boys weighed in at 13.58 and took 2nd out of 60 teams. 260 teams in the high school division... weigh in at White Water. Needless to say there was a traffic jam getting into the lot, which was basically full when I left at the beginning of the High School weigh in period. I hope they pulled it together cause .... well you know. Ulrich was there with 2 pontoons/tanks for the catches. Babler said they do a good job keeping them alive and back in the lake.
  22. I had the honor today to captain a couple of Jr High boys from Springfield in the aforementioned tournament today on Table Rock. I had William and Sam Kuzemka in my boat. We launched out of State Park, first cast at 6:35 a.m. on the first point NW of the ramp close to the Branson Belle. They started out throwing a swim bait (grub) but I quickly switched them to a ned and it was on. They fished my smallmouth banks in Jakes, Powerline and Clevenger Coves... all the ones I could remember. I don't think I got over there any last spring so I was going off my long-time memory. Set the boat in 16-20 feet most of the time until the fog burned off about 10 a.m., then we backed out to 30 feet. I had them fish the bottom although every 3rd or 4th cast came back with the green slime. They had about 13 keepers, all smallies expect one spot. We culled a couple of 16-inchers and had one kicker brown about 3.5 pounds. All bass except the spot appeared to have spawned - they had no pouches at all.... but what do I know, I'm a trout guy. Had may be the same number of shots plus 3-4 nice gogs (which I'm going back for this week!!). The boys weighed in at 13.58 and took 2nd out of 60 teams. 260 teams in the high school division... weigh in at White Water. Needless to say there was a traffic jam getting into the lot, which was basically full when I left at the beginning of the High School weigh in period. I hope they pulled it together cause .... well you know. Ulrich was there with 2 pontoons/tanks for the catches. Babler said they do a good job keeping them alive and back in the lake. View full article
  23. 5,000 cfs to be released this afternoon at Table Rock to make up for one turbine being off line. Flow will equal 4 units basically. If Table Rock reaches 920 ft. they will increase the flow from 15,000 to 20,000 cfs. They have not started releasing Beaver Lake yet. 49-19 TR CORPS TO BEGIN SPILLWAY RELEASE AT TABLE ROCK LAKE MAY19.pdf
  24. Looking west from the Amish store on Gretna Rd. Branson i saw 4-5 funnel clouds but none came down out of the wall cloud. We got 3 inches.
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