tjm

We have three or four kinds of water snakes and most of the ones I see are brown to black in color, I have seen pictures of the Northern in orange but never in real life. http://fisheries.tamu.edu/files/2013/10/Snakes-of-Missouri.pdf

I called it a northern water snake because of the forked at the bottom of the markings with spots between, it is a very pale color making it fair in some minds to call a copper head and it's near water so must be a cottonmouth..

Me too; it doesn't take much to get me off on a tangent.

I believe the ones in the Palmer River are American Shad-3' long- 5-9# and screaming long runs according legend. I made several of those "you should bee here yesterday" trips after I learned about the fishery and never did see one caught, but heard some tales and tied some darts. Have seen the shad jumping up the ladder to the old pond and guys dip netting the bait sized young (might have been ale wives) as they went down the falls. You should google the historical shad industry in the US. It was once our biggest export, iirc. The Potomac and the Susquehanna both figured large in shad production, they had "shad wars" in Pa. I remember reading that one year on the Potomac 995,000 barrels of salt were used just curing the shad, early 1800s.

I looked up the various pickerels on the USGS site and see the chains are native in south east Mo and the grass also, the grass pickerel don't get quite as far west as I am by their map. .

Not that I recall, but I never got really good at identifying small fish, they were either bait or a nuisance, you know. And in water that had both pickerel and pike, I could not always distinguish them. Fun catching and releasing tho. At that stage in my life sunfish were still perch, until a local there informed me they were kiver and another explained they were roach. Then I discovered yellow perch and sunfish became all "bluegill". I was a daily fisher, but targeted trout and LMB mainly. Lived less than five miles from the "shad factory" for ~ten years not even aware of it until an article was published in a fly fishing magazine about people coming there from all over to hit the shad runs.

Problem with people like Dablemont is that other ignorant people won't understand that he knows nothing and lots of it. People who are allowed to vote because they did away with the literacy test will believe all that stuff with no questions asked.

ahh, different fish; my pickerel were chain pickerel and commonly get up to 28-30" . Looking up the grass pickerel, seems a 12"er would be a trophy. Don't think I've ever seen a grass pickerel or if I did I did not know what it was.

The ones I looked at had web seats, so maybe they did? If I went OT Disco it'd be the 133 with 800#? load. again carry weight and length are kayak size and She could go with. I guess the yaks might be more maneuverable in wind than the taller canoe, but, I dang well don't plan on playing on the water when the wind is more than a gentle breeze.

Pretty boat. Build that yourself? wood?

I read that in limestone country water in wells and springs can be basically unfiltered underground rivers from far away, that gives me some concern about what someone else dumped. Rain in Nebraska and Iowa appears to bring the springs up here in dry years. Years ago I lived not far from one of the Superfund dumps and fished a stream that ran close to the "pig farm" where leaking barrels of hazardous waste were found, sudden fish kills not readily attributable to the obvious give me pause. Do water treatment plants regularly test for chemicals? The county water company only checks for bacteria and only treats with chlorine, but that's well water and though I helped build a water plant on Beaver I don't recall any process there that would take out hazardous waste, it's been long enough ago that I may have forgotten.

Got no idea about any records, but they do some times stock older breeders into the river I've been told. I had the grand son over there at a Kids Day a few months ago and some kid caught fish over 6#. Years ago there were a few browns down below the "broken dam" that looked to be 7-9#, were there two or three years. I heard how much they weighed at catch but don't remember. Those were said to be old breeders that were turned loose. Truly doesn't matter to me all rainbow trout east of California are non-native and most all are stockers, only exception in Mo we have some naturalized at Crane and perhaps a few other similar waters. As such why keep records?

I've had the Lowe for ~30 years and it used to car top just fine, but cars got smaller and the tops got rounder (like me). The 70# isn't really the problem (lighter than some yaks) and I can still haul it in the pickup, but that means the pickup has to be at both ends of a float.; thing that got me was the kayaks in the same load range are basically heavier and nearly as long as any canoe. After I figured that out I have been trying to figure out "why a kayak?" Those boats were just examples of why I'm confused with the yak over canoe mindset, I was looking for the kayak advantage that I missed; maybe there is none, idk. Yaks look wetter than even the little Disco and you sit in a sleeping position? For now I'll keep the barge. I'm used to it and it's got a lot of use left in it. It solos just as well as I do and has the bonus that She can come if She wants to.

Think they lost some in the last flood that are still in the stream, maybe someone said 30,000 but I don't really recall exactly. Occasionally some get out with out a flood, from any hatchery I think. Trout can jump quite a way out of the water and some go over the gates. Yeah, there are a bunch right there. Was talking to a guy there and he told me what happened, but, then I slept twice and now ... If they don't get eaten they will get big by and by. The big ones sure were easy last couple weeks.

I wouldn't call MDC til after I got on to the water company, few fish ain't nothin if that stuff hurt you.

People drink that water?

need pictures

Wow! I just learned something, I never knew there were pickerel in MO., never mind in a small branch like Crane. I used to fly fish for pickerel regular in RI/MA ponds and lakes; almost always in weeds and lily pads. Once caught a ~9" pickerel on a Mickey Finn and as I pulled it in a 18-20" pickerel swallowed it; full sight maybe 12 feet from me. I just sniped the tippet. They must be 30% mouth. Best way to avoid the cut off that I found is to use tippet small enough to pull in between their teeth like dental flossing (7-8x-6x?) or a short (9'") steel tippet. Retie the fly/lure after every fish. Don't recall ever seeing a pickerel in the streams that fed or ran out of those ponds except the 4" and under. I never thought of them as shy fish, the weed cover would account for that though.

They'd like to contain it, sorta like the leper colonies. I guess leprosy was one of that kind of disease for 10,000 years, though I've read that they can cure it now. If the area around every deer pen can be contained to 3 or four counties, then the rest of us can eat deer untested, research is ongoing about many aspects of CWD and CWD is eventually fatal some times very quick;y and other times a carrier might live a long time just spreading it around. I'm sure that if they can prove that there is no human threat and when they realize that deer are not universally loved, the feds will curtail the spending. But then the economics of spend and borrow will require they spend the same on some thing new.

I had the idea that I wanted a kayak for a few years based on the notion that they were a lot lighter/shorter and therefore easier to transport, til I started looking several months ago. With my naked weight bouncing around 230 and remembering that I bumped over 260 not long ago, adding in some tackle and clothing plus a 25% water and safe factor, I really don't want a boat that has less than 350# capacity even for a day trip. Some of the yaks I considered; 14'1" 95# 550#cap ATAK 12'3" 70# 400#cap ATAK 13'2" 93# 450#cap Jackson 12'9" 70# 600#cap ocean Prowler Big Game II Angler 15'6" 91# 455#cap Ocean Trident 15 Angler 13'6" 79# 355#cap Ocean Trident 13 Angler 12'1" 56# 350#cap ocean Tetra 12 Angler Compare with canoes... 11'9" 49# 500#cap Discovery 119 17' 79# 780#cap Osagian or my old 17' Lowe Line ~75# 650#cap Load for empty weight the canoes look better and length per load the canoes look better. Canoes also appear to have a comfort factor in where you stow your legs, and that slight height advantage for casting. Based on just this regardless of cost, I can not see the advantage of kayaks. The paddle up float back is the way I've used that canoe most, Only reason that I've been looking is the transport thing and car-topping; I think I'll build a 17' canoe trailer.

So you think a kayak travels faster than the same size canoe?

initials, two reasons: I have no imagination for such things and I can remember them avatar appears to also be my first initial...

Interesting to note that most (all?) CWD out breaks are in or near captive cervids. Probably the biggest reason that it hasn't become more widespread. 1967 (first observed) is closer to 50 years and it was just in captive herds til ~1981. The goat version (scrapie) can wipe out a 2-300 head herd in a couple weeks, I saw it happen to two different farmers. I also observed pigs with all the symptoms of prion disease and there is a study out there on whether pigs (largely prion resistant) might be a reservoir of prion carriers.

That does not say why you and others chose yak over canoe, I missed that part when web shopping. It seemed that at 3-400# capacity the yaks are canoe length and weight, or maybe I didn't find the right yak? Given that each weighed ~same and both same length, why pick one or the other as your only boat? (for now we'll say that each cost $12000, and that isn't a factor)

The pen deer folks will tell you the MDC is over selling CWD and that it is harmless and has always been here, I've read their arguments. I'm not overly educated and not very good with computers and I managed to find lots of scientific stuff about CWD and its kindred Transmissible spongiform encephalopathies TSE: Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, Kuru, scrapie, bovine spongiform encephalopathy, Transmissible mink encephalopathy, Feline spongiform encephalopathy etc. Anyone can if they will spend an hour trying to. If Dablemont can't and can't show such references as sources, then he is a blubbering idiot and not worth this conversation. Scrapie in sheep has been around since history started and we don't get goofy about eating mutton or lamb or wearing wool. Scrapie is very likely the origin of CWD, sheep and deer in same pen at research facility and then the deer released back into the wild... But because of the wild cow disease and panic a few years ago there is a belief that spongiform encephlopathy might jump from cervids to humans and it is a possibility, thus the concern. All those years of scrapie not jumping to humans is the basis for statements that CWD should not be of concern. My observation, MDC would rather err on the side of caution than get blamed later for caving in to the deer farmers. If you think MDC and AFGC compare favorably with any other state's fish and game, you are correct. Most other states depend on politics in all game and fish policies rather than science. o, and the good news is the most recent studies seem to show CWD can be transmitted even by grass growing from dirt that was contaminated by urine or feces as much as 20-30 years later, prions don't die in fire or rain or chemical application. Not much can be done except watch and study and destroy deer, for now.