ness

Don't go bringing common sense into this discussion! That'll just make people think a little for themselves, and we'll never get to 10 pages or the big X

Wait! I'm the forum smart*ss. I was making fun of this dang forum, not calling you out. It is an interesting bit of info.

Geez Jerry! Look what YOU started

Classic!

Just look at these majestic beauties: Almost brings tears to my eyes seeing them roaming free, like they did before the white man came and jacked it all up. It occurs to me that those collars look a lot like the Invisible Fence collars I have on my dogs. I wonder how much it would cost to get a few souped-up collars and string a wire around Peck?

From the deleted scenes:

why not...

Here's a good way to see some elk: ness 2.1 in Rocky Mountain National Park. Loafing above treeline RMNP

I'm not claiming you left any e-mails out. I asked because, to me, the initial response from the guy didn't warrant the response you gave. Of course, you've got more context than we do because you were involved with the stuff on FB stuff. I do think it's unusual that you send and reply to e-mails using two different names, but hey, do what you think is right. Sorry -- I really was just trying to understand all this. Peace out.

Did you leave any e-mails out of the chain? You were pretty condescending and confrontational, given what his response was. And where does 'customer service' come into this? Sounds like a pissin' match on Facebook and you're calling out the company because they won't answer your questions. I wouldn't either given the tone of your e-mails. And are you James or Mike or both?

Yeah, I tend to think they do their homework, but it's a pretty tricky business. I'm not aware of anything they've done that has turned disastrous. Of course, otters come to mind like oneshot says, but their negative effects seem to be pretty localized, mostly in ponds. And that sucks if it's your pond -- I get that. I try to do my part every fall by trying to eradicate ditch chickens from Missouri, even thought they're not hurting anybody.

Yeah, you just don't go stealing a man's pig.

They accosted me at Cabela's in KC once a few years back. It's a real turn-off when somebody shoves a brochure (or anything) in your hand without an introduction or asking or anything. It's no wonder those guys have such a poor reputation. I only saw them there once or I would have been tempted to complain to somebody. I've got a friend who's about as cheap as they get. So cheap, in fact, that he gave them the initial OK in hopes of getting something for nothing. They could never get a nickle outta him, but he felt like he'd been run over by a truck by the time he escaped from the back room.

Well, I was ticked that I forgot to set up the DVR for this. Not so much now. I have seen a documentary on those guys -- maybe it was American Experience -- that was pretty good.

We got only about a quarter inch last night, chance of more coming but not much. For you weather geeks out there, this is a pretty fun website: http://www.weatherspark.com Tons of info all presented graphically.

Good post -- kind of along the lines of what I was suggesting earlier. We can't go back, and we need to be smart about reintroductions into the current environment. 'The way it used to be' isn't necessarily the best answer. Things have a way of balancing out over time, and when we interfere there are often consequences we didn't think of. I don't know enough to say whether this was a good or bad move. In the research I've done the last couple days, because of this thread, I've found little information about the benefits they expected to accrue from this other than providing humans an opportunity to view and eventually hunt elk. The good news is they've taken a measured approach, kept them in a pretty well-defined area, and feel like they've got their arms around disease worries. What were the fiascoes you referred to Al? Surely pheasant don't rise to that level?

That's just scary. That's why I always wear water wings on the tailwaters.

That highlights the main issue I have -- if we're going to reintroduce an animal, we need to understand the current environment. As much as I'd love to have things the way they were 300 years ago, including shipping all you back to Europe, it's just not possible. So, we've got to work with what we've got, or modify what we've got so things work better. Problem is, you hit all kinds of resistance when you try the latter, or you take a chance at screwing things up beyond repair. I don't know how elk will fit into the current environment -- but I know there aren't any predators. So, I wonder if their population will sky rocket unchecked. Things are drastically different than when they last lived here, so reintroduction based solely on the fact they used to be here isn't enough. Nature will find a balance over time, but it may not be to our liking. And, it make take longer than we short-sighted humans can comprehend. I also don't know how quail, bear, mountain lion or other natives will fit into a new order.

Haven't really kept up on this topic, but I have a question. Does anyone know what the logic was for the reintroduction of elk into MO? I'd like to think they felt there was a benefit to it. 'They're native' or 'Arkansas did it' wouldn't seem to be good enough reasons, and I've got enough faith in the MDC to think they gave it a little more thought. Somebody mentioned it was a pet project of some MDC brass. Any evidence to support that?

We got a heck of a rainstorm here tonight. Really enjoed watching it for the 10 minutes it lasted. Everything got a good soaking. I hope we get more tomorrow.

Lady-freakin'-Gaga??? Seriously? I can't see past the 'oooh look at me' hairstyles and costumes. Kinda like Marylin Manson meets the Jetson's. She might have some talent, but she's already lost me, just like Flock of Seagulls did. Too much good stuff out there to waste time on that.

Heck no you weren't cheap. Phil says the top guides, like Babler, are lucky to get $20. You might wanna call this guy and ask for $$ back Seriously -- sounds like you're thinking you should have done more, but you did what felt right given what you knew at the time. I think the biggest 'tip' you could give at this point would be to spread the word about him. Right here would be a pretty good place to do it !

Yeah -- the original Winstead's is still there. Not sure when they opened. We eat there every holiday season as a tradition. There are 3-4 more around town.

Just had Freddies for the first time last week. It was good, but we've got a local joint, Winstead's, that serves that same style (smashed) hamburger, ice cream, etc. I'd rather patronize the local guy whenever possible.

I think it depends on several factors. Guides aren't necessarily taking home the whole fee. It they're working through a lodge or something like that, they'll be splitting the fee. They usually cover their own costs like gas, food, maybe tackle, insurance, licensing, whatever. It's not waitressing, but it's not a way to get rich. If a guy busts his hump for me, I'm gonna let him know I appreciate it verbally, and will a tip. Most of it's gratitude, but part of it's a little selfish -- I want the guy to remember me. I've done as much as 25-ish percent. But that's just my experience based on elsewhere. Phil's comment that most would be happy with $20 makes me think the expectations are pretty low for guides on Taney. FWIW -- I have a lot of respect for people that can do that well. It takes a pretty unique skill set.