tanvat

And he shot "fearing a potential threat" when it looked at them from down below. Good grief, it that's all it takes I should have shot the bear on the Jacks Fork a few years back, several out West while out hiking, and about 25 random dogs.

The pictures tell you all you need to know; zero respect. Its fools like this that can give hunting a bad name.

1. Ditto on the Buffalo. Never floated the lower, and my family and I are going to do it early this summer. Fly fish and catch a few smallies as part of the experience. See #3! 2. Golden Trout in Wyoming. Hiked a ton in the Wind Rivers over the year and this year am going to zero in on some goldens in a remote basin that takes some want to to get to; not too many more years of being able to do that. 3. Start focusing on flyfishing for smallies instead of Mo. trout. 4. Go back and float the Green River in Utah and enjoy miles of textbook hopper banks in Sept. A good 2024 fishing year to all. I know I've got to get it while I can still walk and see; I've- discovered I'm not getting younger!

It is ridiculous the NPS took nearly a decade to come to the grand conclusion that 60 HP jets are appropriate on the the Current above Two Rivers - or, for that matter, anywhere in ONSR. So everyone can have "access," may as well let ATVs drive up the Thorofare in Yellowstone (its flat) or on the trails at Hawn. It certainly satisfies a vocal minority of river users, but it certainly doesn't respect the resource. Don't get me wrong, I've come across some great, nice people on jets on the Current and 11-pt - probably including some members on this forum. I've seen families out and about having a great time on their jets while party floaters cause a ruckus and behave like complete POS. The party floaters descend on on maybe a dozen Saturdays a year from 9 - 5 and are then mostly gone. But a couple (or 20) 60 HP jets blasting up and down the river all day, every day is just incompatible with what should be the crown jewel of the Missouri outdoors. It allows a single person, no matter how nice and respectful they are, to have the impact of dozens of obnoxious floaters. Its like the difference between someone walking down the sidewalk and a train rolling down the tracks. Oh well, it is what is. It will come down to people's capacity for respect and self-restraint which, sadly, is lacking.

This is the second autumn in a row I've had the good fortune to do a DIY float, fish, and camp on the Green River below Flaming Gorge Reservoir near Dutch John, UT. Its a well-known float that gets a well-deserved rap for being a zoo in the summer. But, by mid-September, the crowds have largely disappeared and truly great trip is there for the taking. This year, we skipped the fabled "A Section" and floated the "B" and "C" sections below Little Hole down through Browns Park. Saw just a handful of boats in three days - pretty awesome for one of the more popular rivers in the West. The "C" section has a lower trout population than the upper river, but that just means there are a lot of browns instead of ridiculous numbers of fish. As the attached pics show, at around 2000 cfs, there are miles of picture perfect grasshopper, ant, and beetle banks along the lower parts that are tailor-made for drift boat or raft. And its an easy float, with exception of Red Creek Rapids about 5 miles below Little Hole, which is a legit Class III that takes some care. If you can routinely put an ant or hopper within 6 inches of the grass (even closer is better) from at least 40' away, then you will catch fish. Those fish are in some super shallow water and they just emerge from that grass as if from nowhere. You'll usually find some BWO sippers and good streamer fishing in the evening or if its cloudy. The floating, fishing, scenery, and camping make for a truly great 2 or even 3 night trip. Its no secret, so I've got no problem recommending it as a trip to do at least once - highly recommended.

Jet boats are fine in a few circumstances, like say the tailwaters, the very lower Current, or a reservoir. They should have no place on the upper and middle Current and Eleven Point, just as they aren't allowed on the Buffalo. The reasons are the same. Only a relatively few places are so unique and beautiful that they are last best places. Places like, say, our national parks, which what the ONSR is. Or National Forest wilderness areas and even our state parks. Should we have ATVs at Hawn or in the Yellowstone backcountry? I think (hope?) most people would say no, but I'd wager some of the most ardent jet boaters (and a lot of party floaters) would be all in for that because, after all, who is to say how someone else enjoys themselves? The fact is we allow jet boats and ATVs all up and down the Current and other rivers to satisfy a very small fraction of river users who cause a massively disproportionate impact on the resource. Aside from the resource impact, there is a cultural impact. When the rivers are seen as simply a conduit for thrill-seeking or vodka chugging (like the party floaters), no one really give a crap about the rivers themselves because they are focused - like toddlers - on what they want to do right now with little to no capacity for responsible self-restraint in the interest of something beyond the immediate satisfaction of seeing how fast they can fly up a 6" deep riffle or because they want to fish 5 miles up for 15 minutes before fishing 4 miles down 30 minutes later. A generalization? You bet; because its generally true.

I have no doubt jetboats cause bank erosion on Ozark streams. I see it every time I go floating/fishing. Every time. Jet goes by, waves lash the bank and you can see the cloudy and sometimes muddy water along the bank. Look close and you can see the linear erosion lines. Been down this road before, and I know lots of forum users are avid jet boaters, but jets or anything beyond the 5 hp putt putts down on the Buffalo have no place on most stretches of most Ozark streams. The ONLY reason is personal convenience and whim. Its like having ATVs in Yellowstone....then again, lots of folks would probably go for that. Sure, the hordes of party floaters don't help matters either, but that doesn't justify jets at Akers Ferry, Scotts Ford, etc.

Budman, I'm sorry for the late reply - just saw this topic. The Winds are phenomenal. I've had the good fortune to spend several weeks backpacking/fishing the Winds over a number of years. I've got to backpack and fish in Colorado, Yellowstone, the Beartooths in MT, all around Jackson Hole, WY and the Winds are the best place I've ever been for hiking/fishing period. The total experience of the scenery, remoteness and fishing is hard to beat and if you can go, go and go for as long as possible. Mid to late August is ideal from the perspective minimal mosquitos. Fishing should be good too. Here are some recommendations from trips I've done that are great for a 5 night trip - though 5 nights is a bare minimum to access the core of the range unless you're in top physical condition. Before doing any of these trips I'd alot at least one day camping near the trailhead to give your body time to adjust to the altitude. Also, the Pinedale Outdoor Shop in Pinedale, WY offers shuttles b/t trailheads so you can do a point to point hike that can open up more terrain in a shorter timeframe - plan on a $125.00 or so for this service. Worth it in my opinion. 1. Big Sandy TH to East Fork Valley. Big Sandy is on the west side of the range south of Pinedale, WY. Its one of the busiest trailheads as it accesses the Cirque of the Towers as well as a number of fine long-distance loops. Avoid the crowds and go North along the Fremont Trail and camp at Dad's Lake (6 miles) on night one or even further at Skull Lake - stunning camping at Skull Lake - small brookies in 2002. Head west, cross-country via a very manageable route down to the East Fork Valley and you'll find a valley that will have you thinking you are in Patagonia. From Mt. Geike to Mt. Bonneville there is a sheer 1,000 - 1,300 wall of grantite that shelters the East Fork river and several lakes along the way. May still be goldens in the upper lakes; I've been through the East Fork but did not fish; goldens may persist in the upper lakes - definitely fish all over though. This valley may be the most beautiful place I've ever seen - that, plus ample fishing opps. makes it special. Not crowded either. Very doable in a 5 night trip without having to do a death march. Could make it easier by camping along the Fremont and doing a day trip down to the East Fork; then could also do a day trip up Washakie Creek to the Shadow Lake area - if you have a topo map, this will all make sense. 2. Fiddlers Lake TH to Silas Canyon. This is on the west side of Lander, WY. Good brookie fishing in numerous lakes in lower basin; cutthroats and some goldens in the upper lakes. TH starts in the pines and is forested for the first few miles - upper Silas Lake about 3 or 4 miles in would be a good first nights camp - nice view of the mountain portal to the upper basin where the cutts are. Spend three nights up at Thumb Lake and explore the lakes in the basin and the interconnecting streams. Very pretty timberline basin with some jagged peaks and sharp walls. Smaller basin than upper East Fork and not as insanely scenic, but pretty nonetheless and the fishing is probably better than the East Fork - the disclaimer is that I've only hiked through East Fork and did not fish. Have fished Silas and its good. Very manageable trip for 5 nights. Could even do it in 3. 3. Sweetwater Gap - Tayo Park base camp. Sweetwater Gap is the southernmost and least utilized TH in the Winds. Last two miles to TH are rough - in 2003 I drove a Subaru to the TH but it was, well "technical" as there were ruts over a foot deep. No idea what the road is like now, but I doubt its better. From TH its 6 miles to Sweetwater Gap on the Continental Divide. You follow the headwaters of the Sweetwater River - small pocket water for browns and brooks. Drop over to Tayo Park - a large and beautiful meadow with Tayo Creek and brookies. Could base there and do dayhikes up toward Poison Lake (brooks), Mountain Sheep Lake (brooks) and Coon Lake (goldens) - creek fishing too. Could also take fairly strenuous day hike to Ice Lakes and fish that basin - brooks. If in particularly good shape, could make it Ice Lakes and then explore the fantastic Deep Creek Lakes - cutts and goldens. Add two miles if you can't drive to TH. Great scenery, feels really remote and good fishing. About 10 - 11 miles from Sweetwater TH to Tayo Park. There are so many others, but these would be good. Could also look at the Deep Creek Lake basin out of Big Sandy TH - popular rock climbing area so would see some people. Fantastic scenery - fishing OK from smallish brookies and some cutts - camping at Rapid Lake provides some solitude and access to the Temple Lakes. This will be my next trip hopefully next year as my two sons will both be old enought to make the trek. Again, check out your maps and it'll all make sense. Happy Trails! As folks younger than say or used to say, its gonna epic!

I'm curious about wild trout reproduction in our small creeks because, well, I like to catch them and its interesting how those critters get by. My understanding from observation and reading here and there is that they spawn in Mo. from late Dec. through February in areas with clean, decently stable gravel and some steady flow. I assume that the late Dec. high water destroyed some early redds, but am wondering if the floods and current cold snap could be the recipe for a really good year class of wild 'bows. Makes sense to me, but its just conjecture and it might be wishful thinking. Anyone have any info/insight or sources they are aware of for more info on the topic?

These guys are "rugged individualists" in their own mind; considerably less so than else here on this board who isn't on food stamps. The Hammonds - the arsonists who set the fire - have, like many "ranchers" out West, received nearly $300,000 in cold hard federal cash subsidies between '95 and 2012; aka public lands rancher welfare. And, as someone noted above, they get to graze BLM lands for pennies on the dollar compared to private grazing. Of course, BLM lands are often not prime grazing lands and probably shouldn't be so used, but that's another story. Maybe the subsidies are defensible, I don't know, but these guys are not uniquely self-reliant and productive folks. Hard-working, you bet, but very reliant on largesse from the same govt. that supposedly tramples over them. As for Bundy, he didn't pay grazing fees for like two decades and overstocked his grazing allotment for most of that time. These guys are not heroes, they are not "rugged individualists," they are oppotunistic criminals. Source is here (if I linked it right): http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/info/regulations/Instruction_Memos_and_Bulletins/national_instruction/2015/IM_2015-056.print.htm

Fishinwrench is right on. In 25 years and hundreds of days on public waters (holy crap, how did that happen) of needing a license to fish in Mo. I have been checked exactly zero times. Zero. Oddly, the only time I've encountered state game and fish personnel who asked about a license was last month on a backpacking trip in Wyoming. These guys walked in a few miles into the backcountry to check around while here in Mo. with WAY more fishing pressure on WAY more accessible streams its nada, zilch, zero. If, for instance, MDC really wanted to make sure that folks weren't violating the regs. on the upper Jacks or fishing with trout worms below Baptist like the guy I saw several times last weekend (who also chucked his mangled plastic baits into the river when he asked if I was catchin' anything), then you'd think that over the course of 150 or so days on those rivers over the course of 25 years someone would have at least checked my license or something. I really do not think that it is a manpower issue, its a want to issue. And joeD, I think MDC should pay you for drafting that letter b/c it is perfect bureaucrat-speak: lots of words but no content.

I agree with the suggestions already given. I'd just add that if the water is not high, its worth it to throw few #14-#16 generic dries like an Elk Hair caddis, little terrestrials, etc. up at the head of pools where a riffle comes in. I've had nice days fishing dries on BSP and the other wild trout creeks. Enjoy.

I grew up hunting. The best Christmas was when the long box was under the tree - a single shot .22 one year and a 20 gauge another. I have no problem with guns. I just don't understand open carry at all, not in the least. I just don't trust random strangers with guns. If you can't go to, for instance, to the St. Louis Zoo without packing a gun on your waist, it seems that you the exact kind of paranoid wuss that should not be carrying a gun. The idea that more guns equals more safety is just goofy. It makes some sense - maybe - in a few particularly rough areas, but the better best is just to stay out of those areas. The idea of bunch of gun enthusiasts open carrying around Webster Groves or Hawn or Bennett Springs is ridiculous.

I'll just say it...I hate jetboats on anything but the largest Ozark streams - and even then - good grief people, paddle or float or just forefeit the so-called need of flying up and down the river - the ONLY reasons are pure personal convenience and to use the river like an amusement park an its and other people's expense. If you can't slow down when passing other river users - that is you just "have" to stay on plane - then you shouldn't be there, period. There is a manners issue, but also just an incompatible use issue. Incompatible with intact riverbanks, any semblance of peace and quiet and - flame away folks - a large part of the sense of quiet contemplation and immersion in the experience by the boater. The river is in large part - for the vast majority of jet-boaters I see - a navigational joyride. Really not that much different than allowing ATVs on a trail at Hawn, Bell Mtn., or in the Tetons.

To sum it up, if this passes (unlikely, but whoever votes for it should be voted out) then adjacent landowners hold legal title to all gravel bars on most of the lower North Fork, the Meramec, the Big, the Elk the "Gap" on the Jacks Fork and the first few miles below the Prongs, the Niangua, a good part of the Gasconade, Huzzah, Courtois, Bryant, and Black, and a few spots on the Current - technically, I suppose one would be trespassing on the Pioneer Forest around between Akers and Pulltite by pulling off at a gravel bar. As far as the Mo. Sup. Ct. Delcour case that established a public right to utilize navigable waterways, it would seem that case would have no bearing on this proposed statute b/c Delcour was not based on any public constitutional right to access or constitutional limitation on private property rights of adjacent landowners. Thus, this new statute would effectively re-define private property rights as the legislature is free to do, subject to constitutional limitations - in the absence of a constitutional limitation on this proposed bill, its all fair game for the legislature. All the more reason to get involved and stay that way. This is the same sort of narrow, anti-public interest legislation that is constantly in play out West - seems its made its way East to our detriment. If not convinced, try floating in Wyoming sometime; there are almost militant landowners on the upper Green near Pinedale who will get downright physically threatening if, while floating through on a 60 yd. wide stretch running at 1500cfs, you dare anchor temporarily in the middle of the river (out of sight from and over a mile away from from their house) to untangle a line. Would suck big time for the canoe industry and fishermen if that kind of situation came to Missouri. The proposed Mo. statute doesn't go that far, but try telling that to some irritated landowner as you wade fish - would be a lot of emboldened crumudgeons.

awhuber, Thanks for the heads up. Will be intertesting to see the details. My guess is that the NPS "compromised" and, in the process, compromised a lot of the future health of the riverways to benefit (1) huge outfitters catering to massive party crowds and (2) the small minority that insists on a motorized aquatic superhighway and riverside ATV track; i.e., the drunk and lazy. In any event, as in the past, there will be essentially no enforcement by NPS and a lot of river users - locals and non-locals alike - will continue to show little respect for their surroundings. Bottom line, it'll be business as usual.

River use is gonna get more intense every year that goes by for the simple reason that there are more and more people every year. Given that reality, at some point, our last best places will require additional regulations if they are to retain any semblance of what they are now and what they could become. For instance, the South Fork of the Snake in Idaho has designated overnight campsites. On the Green and Colorado Rivers in Utah, a float through Canyonlands NP requires one to pack out their you know what; think "poop tubes." These are, obviously different environments that require different approaches, but the point is that our unique Ozark streams are not going to remain nice in perpetuity if people are not more responsible or made to be more responsible via regulation. There is no more "socialism" in requiring people to exercise some restraint on say, the ONSR or 11 PT., than there is in requring drivers' licenses or imposing speed limits. Additional regulation is not eliminating all floating or camping, etc. - that's a non-responsive strawman argument that, unfortunately, seems to be the most common response. So much could be done - and I'm thinking specifically of the ONSR - by simply limiting motorized use. That does not limit access for anyone, it simply means one has to either paddle or walk (god forbid!) or drive down to one of the originally planned access points. I think, over time, people would find that the river experience would be vastly improved and, hopefully, people's perception of the rivers would include a bit more respect. There is no doubt that the more motors, gadgets, etc. that are used when outdoors divorces us from the place; the genuine outdoor experience is diluted and respect for the surroundings is diminished - the result is that people treat the river and its surroundings worse every year. Walk around the riverbanks on the upper Current above Welch for a couple of hours and you'll see it in spades. ps. Justin, the "pimp" thing was tongue in cheek and not directed at you and other good outfitters - it was a reference to Ozark Outdoors and their promotion of the huge float. My wife and I rented from you years ago when - I think - you guys had just taken over Sunburst. You guys shuttled us up to Topaz (just great if there is enough water) for a two night trip that is one of our favorite all time Ozark river trips.

Smallie said it best and hit the heart of the problem. There's an endless supply of "johns" who just want to get off, w/ no strings attached. And there'll be more and more of them every year. So, here's a proposal, chalk the Meramec up as a loss - make it and the Niangua, Black and the Elk an Ozark stream red light district; the designated stroll. That way, you concentrate the johns (party floaters) and the pimps (Ozark Outdoors, et al.) and wear out a limited number of hos (the rivers) out, but zone all that stuff out what should be the primo neighborhoods (ONSR, 11 Pt., NFOW).

Awesome trip - sounds like the positives outweighted the negatives though. To me, the bottom line is that both the Park Service and a lot of mainly local users have completely abdicated responsibility when it comes to the illegal roads/motorized use of the rivers. The Park Service caters to a shrill, irrational minority that denies demonstrable facts and relies almost exclusively on red herrings in response to what should be common sense prohibitions on cutting donuts in the streambed of a federally protected waterway. Crap like that would NEVER happen in most other National Park units. I have the good fortune to be able to spend a few weeks in and around NW Wyoming every year and there is no way in heck that one could get away with driving an ATV down the Snake River or around Yellowstone Lake. Yet here, in our National Park, the Park Service lets it happen and thus perpetuates further abuse of the resource and instrusion on Missouri's last best places. Granted, given the size/configuration of the ONSR it is an enforcement nightmare compared to GTNP or Yellwostone, but its like ONSR doesn't even try. The users bear blame too - the redneck yahoos and the party floaters alike. Difference is that ATV tracks linger and cause substantial damage to riparian habitats while the noise from the party crowd lasts about 8 hours on a few Saturdays a year and their trash, though unsightly, doesn't cause substantial, actual damage to rivers. And in reality, some of the blame lays with people like me who bitch and moan but don't organize and demand the Park Service do its job. The ONSR needs some active advocacy as is the case with Natl. Parks out West. Anyway, I plan on going down with the family soon and doing a two nighter on the upper Current. We'll have fun, catch a few fish, let the kids terrorize crawdads and tadpoles and it'll be the stuff the best memories are made of - and I guess we'll just have to accept a few RVs - an old schoolbus if we're lucky - on gravel bars, a few ATVs cutting donuts and maybe, if we're really lucky, we'll get buzzed by some jet boats flying up and down the river, clouding up the river, and breaking the silence from a mile away - just like last time and the time before that....

The Meramec trout fishery is just a mystery to me. From the early to mid 1990's it was really, really good. My fishing journals and pictures from the time confirm my fond memories. Then it just sort of crashed. I'll never forget one night when I hit the fabled "white fly" hatch right at dusk and caught several really nice browns above Suicide. I also remember sight fishing the pool below the spring and down to Dry Creek and the river was just flat full of browns. Maybe that time period was just an anamoly and the river really isn't well suited for trout - but its not like there weren't some gargantuan floods in the mid-1990s. It would be fantastic if a halfway decent trout population returned. Haven't been down there for years, sounds like an afternoon trip is in order sometime this fall.

I assume this is tongue in cheek, given that taxes are lower by far than just a few decades back AND our material standard of living is the highest in recorded human history; govt. oppression is dramatically lower than anytime in U.S. history (think no slavery, women/minorities can vote and own property and the list goes on and on and on), and the principal check on the popular vote is the Electoral College, placed in the Constitution by the Framers, for good or bad. The popular vote issue is brought up by those who think it is OK for the majority to tell the minority what they can and can't do; the antithesis of freedom for all. The morons clamoring for a revolution and militias and guns, guns, and more guns are the biggest bunch of spoiled brat whiners ever, period. Buck up fellas, get back to work, get a little bit informed and really look at how good we've got it. Oppression my arse.... Please. Back to Cliven Bundy, flat out wingnut thief. Its not even close.

OTF, Have a great trip. The area around Ridgway is beautiful. There is a fly shop in town, I forget the name - RIGS?, but they were helpful when I stopped there a couple years back. View from town of the sawtoothed mountains is awesome. If interested in a kinda nearby small stream cutthroat adventure, try heading up over Owl Creek Pass to the forks of the Cimmarron River above Silver Jack Resevoir. These streams head up in the Uncompahgre Wilderness. My family and I backpaced up one of the forks (which ever one w/ the trailhead at the Wilderness boundary) a few years back and though the water was still high and off-color, I hooked a few 'cutts in a very limited amount of fishing time. We had our then 2 and 4 year olds along so really fishing wasn't possible - stunningly beautiful, remote, but not too far from Ridgway - maybe an hour if I recall. Also, if going to the Fryinpan from Ridgway, you could take the road over Owl Creek Pass all the way to Hwy. 50 and on to Gunnison. Long but good gravel road that'll take you right to the trailheads for the forks of the Cimmarron and the drive over the pass and down to Hwy. 50 takes you through the absolute essence of western Colorado. At one point, you come out on a northeast facing slope and can see Fossil Ridge, the Elks up around Crested Butte and what I assume was the Sawatch Range all the way over by Salida. I throughly enjoyed that drive and recommend it without reservation. Plus there is some fishing to be had, so you can't go wrong.

ozark trout fisher, Podum has a great suggestion; Lake City area is wonderful. The Uncompahgre near Ridgway is a very pretty area, but not really a destination fishery for someone traveling so far. Its a small tailwater below a heavily mined area and there aren't many (to my knowledge) good back up plans nearby as is the case in Lake City or Durango. I have been through there two out of the last three years, never fished it, but just didn't seem worth it given the other waters in the area. I know you mentioned Durango, and it is a great area. But to get away from famous rivers and have a ton of fishing in a more remote setting, I'd check out the Conejos River west of Alamosa. Long gravel road along the Conejos River with beautiful water and lots of public access; everything from classic Colorado pocket water to a meadow tailwater in the upper reaches below Platoro Resevoir. The South San Juan Wilderness area is right there; arguably some of the best backcountry fishing in all of Colorado. I've backpacked/fished there twice and, after Wyoming, its my favorite. Hike up from Three Forks into the Wilderness and the fishing is good; ditto for Elk Creek down near the start of the gravel road, but its a 4 mile hike up to the great meadow water there, no big deal if you are a hiker. The high country scenery and fishing, in my opinion, is WAY better than anything near Durango. Durango is a pretty big down and attracts lots of folks; the Animas Valley is pretty highly developed.

awhuber, OK, so "militant" was a bit over the top. But the state control idea appears motivated by the same folks who want the status quo or worse. Congressman Smith and the various "property rights" groups in southern Mo. I think MDC or DNR could do a good job. My point is that the vocal proponents of this idea are on the wrong side of nearly ever pressing managment issue facing the ONSR. That, and this would be bad precedent nationally. But, thankfully, it most likely will not happen. Its mostly political theatre for the - yep, you guessed it - winguts. Couldn't resist....

Transfer of ONSR to the state of Missouri is really bad idea. First, the present state park system, as good as it is, presently has a funding shortfall. Adding, at one fell swoop, 80,000 acres would require substantial new investements from the state that would likely not be forthcoming. Second, look at whose idea this is. Its the brainchild - I use that term lightly - of the borderline militant ATV/jetboat/RV on the gravel bar crowd. Why do you think these folks are so gung ho for state management? To the extent these folks advocate more so-called local control, it should be pointed out the evidence for the sucess of such control is completely lacking. A key reason why ONSR and a number of other parks were created is precisely remedy the abuses inflicted by the local population. Good stewardship by locals is for the most part a myth, as there is very little actual evidence in the form of real-world examples that people can actually refrain from destroying the same land they profess to care so much about. If left to local control, the Current River would be like the Meramec or worse and the Jackson Hole valley in Grand Teton Park would be like Branson rather than perhaps the most beautiful place left in the lower 48. Third, and most importantly, it would set a terrrible precedent for our National Park System. If a few wingnut local legislators can eliminate a national park, then our entire national park system - our national natural heritage - would be at grave risk. Although parks like Yellowstone, Glacier and the Utah desert parks are hugely popular literally the world over, I can tell you from direct experience that there remains a crazy, largely local contingent in each of those areas that want "state control" so they drill for gas in the redrock and ATV at will.