LarrySTL

Today I was on the Big River above Hwy 8 and saw The Wierdest Crawdad I have ever seen. It was 3 inches or 3+ long , close to an inch side to side for most of the length of its body, ( which was a lot bigger, especially in width than what I've seen so far this spring) and heres the wierd part. It was colored alternating bands, maybe 3/4 of an inch wide, of bright yellow and dark. I'm saying dark because it seemed black, but could have been dark brown or dark green. The yellow was French's Mustard yellow, the yellow of the emoticons here on OAF. Not tan, not pale something, but as yellow as a Penzoil motor oil bottle. It had the colors and stripes of a bumblebee. I was wading and it zipped in front of me and stopped in perhaps a foot of clear water for long enough for me to wish that Ron or one of the other good photographers was there to take a pic of it. Somebody tell me you've seen these too so I know I'm not losing it, or at least tell me its some lead mine tailings mutation or something. I just spent 30 minutes googling pics of crawdads and I dont see one like it.

If you haven't looked for them as snowmobile suits you might try that.

I'll bedfish for LMs in lakes, and my favorite lure for that is a 4 inch tube.

For waterproof and warm, I'd have to say something that is both goretex and thinsulate. Thats going to be pricey but if you use them for a few years, most folks find its worth it. Yes, the opposite of what I just did on waders .

Thanks, everybody who posted. I think I said I'd do a followup so here it is. I ended up, thanks to BPS's March sale, at a price of $ 99 ( marked down from $ 149) for their store brand breathable chest waders with neoprene feet, and their $ 29 ( marked down from $ 39 or $49, I forget which) BPS brand boots. I dont expect these to last years and years, but what I wanted was something I could use a few times a year while I figured out if I wanted to put more money into better waders and boots in the future, so I am happy with what I got. The waders didnt leak, and they did pretty well on breathability ( if thats a word). I was in the water about 3 hours this past Saturday in 56 degree water, sometimes between knee deep and waist deep and I wasnt cold wearing jeans and regular socks with them. The boots run huge; normally I am a 12 1/2, occasionally a 13 in a shoe, and the boots are 12's. The length is good, the width is BPS's standard width, but they are wierdly wide. I laced them as tight as I could and they worked ok. The soles looked like they might be a little slick, but they really were good at not being slippery. The waders run tall. I am 6'4 and these were not a "Tall" size but were plenty tall enough to fit me. I wanted non-crap quality starter level stuff at no more than $ 150 and I feel like thats what I got. Time will tell. If I am still wading in a couple years when these wear out, then I may look at the $ 300 + equipment. I also learned that getting more than waist deep in what to me was a significant current was a little spooky and that the deeper I went the harder it pushed at me. I didnt go swimming but once it was too close for comfort. Thanks all.

Yesterday I caught my first smallmouth of 2012 and, unlike last year, I did so in the first 30 minutes of fishing. I hope the Rams really do well with their extra draft choices !

Numbers or one very big fish ? I'd be glad to have to choose !

All of you know you're making me incredibly jealous, right ? Maybe I'll get my chance this weekend.. If you see me I'll be the guy with the store tags still on the waders ! Or if it gets any warmer, maybe I'll be back in swim trunks pretty soon. LOL

Any way to perhaps combine this with the Oregon County prosecutions in the other thread ? Or with the conservation folks involved in that ?

Mail to the prosecutor, and to the reporter who wrote the story, and to the reporter's boss, particularly if it said you would try to make a trip down there and spend some money in a county that supports such prosecutions, and such reporting, might be a real good thing. Mostly the prosecutor may care about the local voters, and the reporter care about her boss and her readers, but some discretionary income flowing into places like Oregon County could certainly be appreciated and might result in other prosecutions, there or nearby. I cant seem to find email on the PA, but I did find Oregon County Prosecuting Atty PO Box 393, Alton, MO 65606 (417) 778-7616 The reporter is Linda Greer South Missourian News P.O. Box 248 Salem, AR 72576 870-895-3207 1-800-995-3209 Fax 870-895-4277 news@areawidenews.com Her Editor is Niki de Soto and the publisher is Janie Flynn ( both the same contact info)M

I'll just ditto what the others have said, especially Dutch, and do a X 2 on the possibility of joining a local bass club. A bass club can get you to a variety of lakes, and in a variety of boats, for a small fraction of the cost and upkeep of even a modest size bass boat. They can also be a good source of info on what boat you might like, or what boat you should avoid, and a lot of decent used bass boats change hands in bass clubs without ever getting advertised to the public. I am a very big fan of riding in several boats before making any purchase, and I have seen lots of folks save tons of money or aggrevation or both by starting with a decent, somewhat inexpensive used boat to get a more detailed feel for what you need, what you want, and what owning, storing, towing, etc a boat is like. YMMV

I realize that if I am going to wade without waiting for several months of warm weather, I need waders. I know next to nothing about them except what info BPS and Cabelas have online. I want to get decent starter-level stuff, without spending a fortune, if that’s not too contradictory. I presume I need to go try all this on rather than doing it online. I would be using this to wade for smallmouth in spring and fall. I'm not a trout guy, and I wont be out there in January among the snowflakes. Moderate priced breathable chest waders, stockingfoot, and separate wading boots look to me like it might be a good start, but what would those of you who know a lot about such things think or recommend ? Any ideas from general info to specific brands, etc would be appreciated. Thanks

I've never been on a float stream in IL, but I fished quite a few bass tournaments on the Ohio River out of Golconda, about where these creeks come into the Ohio. I've been about as far upstream in Lusk, Bay, Grand Pierre and the Saline as you can get a bassboat without demolishing things. I never caught a SM down there and I dont know for sure of any ever weighed in that were caught without locking through downstream to the Cumberland River below Barkley Lake. Rumors exist of some in the Saline, and the locals firmly say there are some in the lower Wabash River. The only SM I have ever seen at a weighin there, and that has been very few, were from guys who admit they locked through downstream and fished in the Cumberland, or in Kentucky Lake which is an almost impossible run in terms of time. Some of the Cumberland SM were nice size.

Decades ago before the 15 " limit went in on Table Rock and a few other impoundments, you could see, year by year, Table Rock having more and more really small bass from about 8 to 11+ inches, and fewer and fewer decent size or really big fish. When MDC put in the 15" minimum, most people I knew hated it, me included. However, within just two or three years, the "small bass" were not 9 and 10 inches, but were 13 and 14 inches, and the truely big bass, began showing up again, the 7 and 8 pound largemouth. When that became obvious, the serious bass folks there shifted from hating 15 " to strongly supporting 15 ". Around that same time, "catch and kill" began switching to C&R. I know there are big differences between LM in major reservoirs and SM in rivers and creeks, but the same thing could happen resulting in a bigger size of "small bass" and a reemergence of big fish, however we may define big. MDC seems to realize they have many constiuencies, including the catch-kill-cook folks, and I doubt we could ever get the whole state to anything like 18/1. MDC can't give each faction their way on all waters. I agree with Smalliebigs that MDC won't do that. But, what if we combined his idea and aimed for a few 18/1 or absolute C&R rivers, with Al's frequent comments that a lot of having big SM is about habitat. What if the CatchKillCook folks were happy with some CKC streams that have poor big fish habitat anyway, and we got a lot of streams, or far larger areas of them, to something like 15/3, and got some to 18/1 or total C&R ? Is the route for MDC to not try to make each constituency tickled pink, but to give each constiuency enough of "their way" to be content with the overall plan ?

Al said < I snipped it for length >: back when I used to keep careful records of all the smallmouth I caught for one MDC study, I saw the same thing...lots and lots of fish up to 12 inches, and a precipitous drop in numbers right around 12 inches. As to slot limits not being necessary because there is no bottleneck in small fish due to lack of food, I would agree that the biological justification for a slot probably isn't there. But I've said before that there are biological reasons for regulations, and "angler management" reasons. In my opinion, the beauty of a slot limit is that it protects bigger fish while allowing harvest of the abundant smaller fish. The only way to get to a fishery with many more really big fish is to protect those fish until they get really big. Since there seems to be that sudden drop-off in numbers of fish right around whatever the length limit is, if you have a 14 inch length limit instead of the current 12 inch limit, it only means you catch more fish between 12 and 14 inches, but the numbers of bigger fish than that are probably still going to be nearly as low. If you put the length limit at 18 inches, then you get a lot more fish up to 18 inches, but unless you couple it with a really low creel limit like on the present "trophy" management areas with a one fish limit, you still end up with very few fish over 18 inches. And with a 1 fish 18 inch limit, you are hardly making it worthwhile for those who want to catch and keep fish. The thing is, we have plenty of small fish on most Ozark streams, and I think they could stand quite a bit of harvest. But we have few big ones, and they need protection. A slot limit, while not biologically justified in the traditional sense, would allow harvest of, say, 4 fish under 14 inches, enough for a decent meal, and one fish over 18 or 20 inches, a true trophy, while protecting a lot of fish up to that 18-20 inch size at the same time as it "appeased" the catch and keep people. And since the streams are open systems, it couldn't hurt the populations. =================================================================== Thanks Al One result of size limits is a lot of fish just below the keeper size, and I see Al's point that things like an 18 " minimum would keep a lot of casual angers away. With those things in mind, what if MDC did some more rivers, or major sections of big rivers at 18" minimum, one fish limit; would that result in some areas with excellent big fish populations and very little casual angler pressure ? Those who keep legal fish might go to some other river, leaving the C&R folks (including most of this forum) with some locations with good populations of big fish, and light pressure from those who might otherwise keep fish. Do we know if its working out that way on the two (?) present 18 inch/one fish areas ?

I was at last nights MSA meeting too and yes it was fascinating. The MDC guys are asking, and looking for answers to questions very similar to those being asked here and yes, they want to continue to research and get answers. One fish was tracked over 50 miles away in the Jacks Fork. One 18 inch fish quickly went 30 miles away from Big Spring and then stayed for months in the same place. They seem to be serious about figuring out a lot of these things although as Mitch said, once they described the tracking process it does eat incredible amounts of manhours. As to possible changes in regulations in the future it sounded to me like that would not be sooner than 2013 or 2014 but they did repeatedly say "no options have been taken off the table" as to what future regs might be.

"Stories of a 1.5 million dollar contract for writing a book for MDC given to a former employee with no outside bids" A lot of Buff's post is never going to be proveable, at least not here. However, if the book thing is true, perhaps Buff or LD himself might let us know the author's name, the ISBN number of the book, etc. If that much were real ( I'm not holding my breath), getting a copy of the contract ought to be do-able. This seems like a simple place to start, no matter which direction it cuts.

Mine are pretty modest compared to some of these, but here goes: Catch a 15 + inch smallmouth wading Catch one floating Pick one or two locations within a day-trip driving distance of St Louis and learn those places ( instead of driving all over looking for The Perfect Spot) BTW I do appreaciate everybody's helpfulness toward us newbies.

"I have met again witht the prosecuting attorney and he has made a recommendation on your tresspass charge from last summer. He is willing to dismiss the charge against you if you voluntarily agree in the future to avoid going on Mr. Prater's property. He is not saying I can't float this section, only stay off of Prater's land. " Chief, as others have said, its your rear and your wallet on the line on this. I join those suggesting that you figure out what is best overall for you, and do that. I too will donate if you decide to go to trial. One additional suggestion is that you might want to clarification on what the prosecutor means by Prater's "property". Some of the cases Al gave seemed to say that the landowner may own the land, on certain types of creeks, out to the center line of the creek channel and owns the creekbed underwater to that point. Does the PA mean "stay off Prater's gravel bar above that day's waterline" or "dont anchor or wade in the creek on Prater's side of the center of the channel" plus the point you raised about the possible need to portage. Good luck and thanks for taking it this far whichever way you go from here.

“you can get Chuck's Book by joining Missouri Smallmouth Alliance.” Yes you can. I joined recently and got my copy of the book in today's mail. $25 total for membership and the book combined.

Anybody looking to see those or most any other bass lures can go to BassPro.com or Cabelas.com and put the lure's name in the search box. Those sites are sometimes not the best price you can find, but for overall selection, especially to window shop online, its hard to beat them.

Thanks for the help so far. I am catching some bass though not much size. So far I have basically been in the counties surrounding St Louis County. When I go to the upstream accesses I find riffles often only an inch or two deep, and pools that are knee deep, sometimes less. Or, I go downstream and find mud bank water that seems to be largemouth-ish at best or stagnant looking at worst and I am catching nothing, or some dinky Ky’s in that water. Is part of the slow action that its late in a dry hot summer ? I see a lot of territory where one more foot of water might make a big difference; is that other foot of water there earlier in the year ? I’m catching mostly K’s, and some LMs, but no SM so far. Is that about where I am fishing, or something about how I am fishing ? If I can generate a free day during the week, do I have a significantly better chance at some SM if I shift areas and try the upper parts of the Meramec/Huzzah/Courtois ? Thanks !

This should lead you to a parts schematic for Pinnacle, if I can correctly attach the URL http://www.pinnaclefishing.com/shop/t-partsdiagram.aspx

First I learned this isn't going to be just "show up, catch gobs of nice smallmouth and then go find lunch". I hadn't really thought it would, but it was a nice fantasy. I learned I still am carrying too much tackle. That little bag took zero energy to take to the car, but quickly got heavy tromping around in the countryside. Next time, two surface plugs, two crankbaits, a few hooks and jig heads for some plastic, and a small amount of plastic (tubes, senkos, craws, and two or three flukes)that would leave a lot of room left over in a sandwich size baggie. I learned to not just toss the first cast out there as a dry run, even into about a foot of water because an ok size bass might grab it and put on a display before spitting the tube back out after a poor hookset. I should have put a second rod and reel in the car, especially with the first one having a very old Cardinal 4 spinning reel that had never broken anything until about noon on Friday. Naturally there are no parts stores out where I was. Later I learned that that $ 2 piece of plastic is about $ 20 on Ebay, and close to non-existent elsewhere. I caught and released several small spots before the plastic reel spool broke but no SMs. I enjoyed the day, and spent the afternoon scouting around a broader area. That taught me why everyone swears by Delorme, because a state highway map and the 200 Adventures maps make finding some places, especially the 'county road' places tough. I ordered Delorme today. Questions if I may; a few weeks back I was wading a bit wearing old gym shoes and slipped and fell a lot, plus got a lot of grit and small rocks in the shoes. This time I tried water shoes, decent traction, didnt let rocks in much, but not so great walking to the water, and if I step on an underwater beer bottle or tin can, I'll be wishing for the gym shoes. What are folks wearing on their feet for this ? I'd like to avoid buying actual wading boots til I see how this goes a bit more. River gauges. In the Meramec group I found lots of info on the Meramec gauges and water flows that folks like. Today I found gauges for the Big River at Irondale and Brynes Mill; does anybody have any tips for the water level and cfs flows they would look for at those gauges ? Thanks folks !

Ditto to searching for Al's posts, especially one about two weeks ago in a thread titled 200 Mo Smallmouth Adventures. In that he lists several great resources and the local branch of the St L County Library can get "200 Mo Smallmouth Adventures" for you. I'm reading it now and it has far more detail, especially upstream from the MDC Paddlers book. As one of the newest of the new guys, I can't tell you fishy answers yet, though I expect to be out learning some of those this coming week.