More Smallie Action In River

[zipstick]

If by PETA you mean, People Eating Tasty Animals, okay, I will accept that. It does not matter how many miles of water you have to work to find bedding bass. I figured that any conservation-minded angler had it in their minds to avoid targeting bedding bass in streams that have a finite amount of these amazing creatures. I guess if you have the "expertise" that you supposedly have, that makes it ok? No. Fishing for bedding bass is easily avoided unless you are intentionally targeting these fish. I am not judging, but if this is the case, you should not be advertising how rewarding it is to rip a 16+" bass from their beds.

I hope you consider what I am saying without getting defensive as you did before. I hope you can see that you are potentially doing irreversible harm to the smallmouth population.

Bream are notorious egg thieves, and a minute off a bed allows the bream more time than they need to swim in and eat a couple hundred eggs.

No, I would not cast someplace where bass are bedding. I prefer to conserve that natural resource rather than exploit it. You don't have to worry about inviting me. Even if you did, I would decline as I would rather not fish with someone that feels this way about a natural resource that is becoming more and more rare in the state of Missouri.

You are just way off base. I've never seen a brim anywhere near these bass in their communities in spring. Now, those bass protecting young might be taken legally by anglers during the early part of the open season though. I know that many years some spawning is going on in late May if the river has been high and chilly.

In no way do I harm the future population of smallies in our streams. The telling factors for the success or failure of the spawn would be great fluctuations of water level and water temps IMO. Of couse we have to have a population of breeding bass which we do as I have a pretty good notion about as I fish through the winter. I released over 60 relatively big smallies over 17 in. this winter which I could have kept. Now keeping those would have would damaged the breeding stock. I'm really on your side preserving the big smallies, but I just don't agree with your original premise.

[Gavin]

I dont think that youll find agreement on bed fishing. I went fishing with Kevin Menuea from MDC a couple years ago and put the spawn fishing for smallmouth question to him. He said that lack of flooding is really the determining factor for a successfull spawn on Ozark Streams. If the beds dont get washed out, its a good year.

Personally, I dont bed fish for bass or trout anymore, but I did plenty of it in the past. Others can arrive at their own decision and I wont condemn them if their opinion differs from mine. Cheers.

[Mitch f]

I emailed Michael Allen who was part of the group form Florida that performed a study on whether fishing during the spawn has impacted the fish population. He replied as follows:

"Briefly, our results were not specific to reservoirs or rivers, they were obtained from reviewing tagging studies and creel survey data nationwide (included lakes, reservoirs, and rivers). We evaluate the proportion of the total fishing effort that occurred during spawning, and used tagging studies to evaluate what proportion of bass are caught during spawning. We put all this information into a computer model. The results indicated that in most cases spawning season closures would not improve the number of bass in lakes. However, in cases where fishing pressure is very high there could be impacts. That's the short take home message, hope this helps".

[jdmidwest]

In small streams, even wading near smallmouth beds will spook off the guardian fish and minnows or longear sunfish rush in and dine on the eggs. I have observed this and target longear sunfish specifically on their beds in response to the brutal onslaught of a prime gamefish. That, and the redbelly's taste good too. Thus, I turn the balance of nature in favor of the smallies by controlling the longears.

[Chief Grey Bear]

I released over 60 relatively big smallies over 17 in. this winter which I could have kept.

That is really great. I love hearing that and seeing all the pics you post of these large brownies. Just few short months ago, we were led to believe that they were all but extinct and the regulations needed to be changed immediately.

[Mitch f]

Chief, I don't think anyone was led to believe the smallies were all but extinct. Zipstick knows how to catch big fish in the river and probably will catch fish when no one else can. I've been fishing up north several times and can attest to the fact that Missouri is in no way close to states like Wisconsin or Michigan in terms of quality smallmouth fishing. It is normal to catch 5-10 fish 18" or bigger every time you go out. We need tighter statewide regulations so we can make Missouri a better smallmouth fishery.

[Chief Grey Bear]

I don't think you have been paying attention.

[Mitch f]

If you enjoy catching those giant 12" smallies keep on doing the same thing and it will never change. Statewide regs help everyone

[drew03cmc]

You are just way off base. I've never seen a brim anywhere near these bass in their communities in spring. Now, those bass protecting young might be taken legally by anglers during the early part of the open season though. I know that many years some spawning is going on in late May if the river has been high and chilly.

In no way do I harm the future population of smallies in our streams. The telling factors for the success or failure of the spawn would be great fluctuations of water level and water temps IMO. Of couse we have to have a population of breeding bass which we do as I have a pretty good notion about as I fish through the winter. I released over 60 relatively big smallies over 17 in. this winter which I could have kept. Now keeping those would have would damaged the breeding stock. I'm really on your side preserving the big smallies, but I just don't agree with your original premise.

Seriously? You have never seen a longear sunfish watching the bass beds? You need to look closer I think. I am envious of you for fishing all winter long for these beautiful creatures. You don't agree with me on the fact that pulling a bass from their beds is potentially detrimental to that year's spawn. It may be noticeable or it may not, but if eggs are eaten, they can't hatch and potentially become that next 20" brownie.

I emailed Michael Allen who was part of the group form Florida that performed a study on whether fishing during the spawn has impacted the fish population. He replied as follows:

"Briefly, our results were not specific to reservoirs or rivers, they were obtained from reviewing tagging studies and creel survey data nationwide (included lakes, reservoirs, and rivers). We evaluate the proportion of the total fishing effort that occurred during spawning, and used tagging studies to evaluate what proportion of bass are caught during spawning. We put all this information into a computer model. The results indicated that in most cases spawning season closures would not improve the number of bass in lakes. However, in cases where fishing pressure is very high there could be impacts. That's the short take home message, hope this helps".

Florida must have a booming smallmouth fishery somewhere. Oh, no? Really? Wow, those study results don't even pertain to Missouri stream smallmouth.

Chief, I don't think anyone was led to believe the smallies were all but extinct. Zipstick knows how to catch big fish in the river and probably will catch fish when no one else can. I've been fishing up north several times and can attest to the fact that Missouri is in no way close to states like Wisconsin or Michigan in terms of quality smallmouth fishing. It is normal to catch 5-10 fish 18" or bigger every time you go out. We need tighter statewide regulations so we can make Missouri a better smallmouth fishery.

Mitch, what we were told is that the top end size of Missouri smallmouth bass has decreased due to the increase of runt spots. Are you familiar with the prominent smallmouth fisheries on the east coast (Potomac, Susky, etc)? They catch fish that size all the time too. Is this a result of management or better water quality and forage base to grow these larger fish?

If you enjoy catching those giant 12" smallies keep on doing the same thing and it will never change. Statewide regs help everyone

Hmm, another person swearing by statewide regs. We had that discussion on here, regarding the holy grail of smallmouth management in Missouri, the White Paper. Statewide regs based upon five drainages in the eastern half of the state benefit those five drainages. C&R for smallmouth is what I would like to see, but it will never happen.

[ollie]

This thread is getting to be a train wreck. Here's my take on fishing off the beds for smallies. Fishing off the beds is like taking a canned hunt,you know it's going to be easy. When your young you don't know any better, but when you get older and more skilled it becomes less of a challenge. If fishing weren't a challenge to me I doubt I would be doing it. Ok, got caught up in the wreck, sorry, carry on.