My Trout Management Wish List

[Smalliebigs]

You guys are arguing semantics about the Capps Creek study...it doesn't matter at all, because generally, Blue Ribbon regs are better for the angler, and White Ribbon regs are better for the grocery store's sales of lemon and butter. If they turned Capps into a Blue Ribbon and went from six stockings a year down to one or two, it would fish better and there would be better fish at a fraction of the cost. But we all know how many families would starve to death then, so forget that.

If I had my way, all flowing streams would be managed as Blue or Red Ribbons except for the parks. They could shut down the urban programs, too, as far as I'm concerned, even though I do enjoy getting my fix at Busch in the winter. With all the talk about returning to fiscal responsibility, everyone should agree with that, right? After all, the MO trout programs should be about fishing, not feeding people, and that's what the White Ribbons and urban programs are...an all-you-can-eat buffet. But I'm notoriously unsympathetic to meat anglers, and y'all know that, so whatever. Maybe they could hire someone to pick up the hoosiers' trash if they weren't spending so much on cranking out tons and tons of biomass.

And I'll add this...If I see tighter regulations implemented for trout before smallmouth, I'm gonna throw a conniption fit.

Eric, sometimes I could not agree with you more and this is one of them!!!! Enforce the laws on the books and fine the living crap out of all the loosers who litter and break every other law on the river. Sometimes at my cabin I see some of the stupidity beeing played out on the Meramec and I want to start shooting people and doing society a favor....***just kidding....not serious, just venting*** You are right tighten up the regs on Smallmouth before trout, better yet quit letting people fish for either species with bait. Fishing for smallies and trout on the river should be a challenge that you earn over time and work. I don't think you should be able to just plop a ball of eggs or dough or a minnow in the water and be rewarded with a nice smallie or trout. This is just my opinion...obviously and I don't care what the people in the Ozarks who allege that it's their heritage to be able to rape the stream of fish so they can eat. I have seen certain streams and rivers get brutalized in the last two decades and it's sad.Some of the younger people will never know what the good olde days were like.

[stlfisher]

I would be in favor of no bait for trout and smallmouth. I enjoy the challenge as much if not more than the catch. Now that I think about it, I think the use of bait bother's me more than the actual harvest. Maybe if people had to make an effort to learn how to catch the species they are after they would have more respect for it. Using bait just doesn't seem very sporting to me.

The only reason we need to have these regulations anyway is because we would ruin or have ruined fisheries wihtout it. That is really kind of pathetic if you think about it.

[Outside Bend]

I almost never use bait, but I have no problem with the folks who do. It's a great way to get kids started- very few people I know went straight to spin or fly fishing. Some species are just tough to catch on artificials. And I'm not sure where you'd draw the line as to what constitutes bait- natural foods, prepared baits, scented plastics?

To me a ban on bait seems sort of arbitrary, a guy who catches 5 fish and keeps them has about the same effect as a gear or fly guy who has a 50 fish day C&R. Personally, I'd rather have a bait guy come buy and catch his limit in a half-hour than spend a day low-holed by a fly guy using 7x that takes 10 minutes to bring a .75 lb fish to net, spends another five minutes squeezing and hucking it on grass and gravel for a photo op, then does the "noble," thing and releases it, and who drinks the grape Kool-Aid that C&R means none of the fish you catch on a given day will die as a result.

There are some real issues with bait, but they're issues shared with the rest of the angling community- transportation of exotic species, litter, poaching, etc. To me, banning bait wouldn't do much for the fishery, but it would be another schism which divides the angling community for no other reason than one faction finds it uncouth.

Just because a fishery isn't being managed the way you'd like, doesn't mean it's being mismanaged.

[Gavin]

I dont see a need for additional bait bans...Its already banned on most quality trout fisheries and banning bait on smallmouth water would be unfair to the folks who want to fish for catfish. I'm pretty happy with the trout regulations here in Missouri...Anyone remember how miserable the trout fishing was under old set of regulations(The regs we had before the "Ribbon" designations came into effect)? We've got it allot better now IMO. Cheers.

[stlfisher]

Certaintly there are no 100% effective ways to ensure survival of fish whether they are caught with bait or flies/artificials. You bring up a good point that there are irresponsible flies and arificial guys as well. No faction is 100% immune. Exhausting fish with light tackle is an issue. I use the heaviest tackle that I can get away with.

However, look no further than C/R areas and the Upper Current for a great example of how tighter regulations do help a fishery. Take a walk through the bait area at Montauk then talk a walk through the fly area. The numbers of fish are dramaticaly better in the fly area. The point is that bait areas almost always have lower fish counts than the artifical areas even in cases where the harvest regulations are the same.

In a pefect world each person would have enough knowledge of the individual stream they fish to know what is best for it. I will always be in favor of a test that should be administered when you first get your fishing license. I don't believe the average angler is informed enough to understand how his/her fishing is affecting the water they fish. This includes the irresponsible fly guys too. Then discussions like these would be a mute point, because the fishing is so good it doesn't matter what technique you use to catch them.

[stlfisher]

I dont see a need for additional bait bans...Its already banned on most quality trout fisheries and banning bait on smallmouth water would be unfair to the folks who want to fish for catfish. I'm pretty happy with the trout regulations here in Missouri...Anyone remember how miserable the trout fishing was under old set of regulations(The regs we had before the "Ribbon" designations came into effect)? We've got it allot better now IMO. Cheers.

Good point regarding the cafish guys...

[Flysmallie]

However, look no further than C/R areas and the Upper Current for a great example of how tighter regulations do help a fishery. Take a walk through the bait area at Montauk then talk a walk through the fly area. The numbers of fish are dramaticaly better in the fly area. The point is that bait areas almost always have lower fish counts than the artifical areas even in cases where the harvest regulations are the same.

But how many more fisherman are fishing the bait area? And how many are keeping their catch in the bait area compared to the fly area? That's the only way you can make an educated decision based off of your information.

[Outside Bend]

However, look no further than C/R areas and the Upper Current for a great example of how tighter regulations do help a fishery. Take a walk through the bait area at Montauk then talk a walk through the fly area. The numbers of fish are dramaticaly better in the fly area. The point is that bait areas almost always have lower fish counts than the artifical areas even in cases where the harvest regulations are the same.

True, but it ignores the differences in C&R rates between fly and bait anglers, differences in angling pressure, etc. EDIT: sorry FS, didn't see your post up there

I guess IMO fisheries management shouldn't be solely about producing the largest number of quality fish, but rather maximizing a finite resource for the benefit of the greatest number of people. If we're all on the same page, and everyone wants quality trout/smallmouth/whatever populations, good deal. If some folks want to use bait, I think we can make those concessions. If some folks want to keep a fish here and there, I think we can make some concessions. If some folks, for whatever sick reason, want to eat a hatchery trout, we can make some concessions. If you want to use a speargun or atlatl to kill some fish...ok, we'll try to find a way for you to do that. It's compromise. Not everyone gets everything they want, but enough people get enough of what they like to keep folks reasonably content.

[stlfisher]

But how many more fisherman are fishing the bait area? And how many are keeping their catch in the bait area compared to the fly area? That's the only way you can make an educated decision based off of your information.

I don't think the numbers of fisherman in either section are that dramatically different. However, you can make a pretty educated guess that more fish are taken from bait areas than other areas. I don't think that is too much of a leap. I have walked from the bridge at Montauk (by the entrance to the campground) with friends down to the end of the park (that is a good size stretch) and saw no fish and no fisherman...more than once.

I don't understand the baitfishing thing for trout...I admit it. It is not for me. That being said I do have friends that do it all the time at the trout parks. Just 2 weeks ago we were at the Current, and I did spend time fly fishing the bait area with my friends. We moved after a few minutes and I took them to the fly fishing area. They were amazed at how many fish there were and how many more they caught. They even released a few and I have one convert already.

I am not the type to walk around snickering or muttering comments about those that baifish...I am not going to make anyone feel bad or inferior about it, but for the life of me I just don't understand the attraction of baitfishing for trout or bass...or any sport fish that would readily take a fly or artifical.

If you are a kid, introducing someone to the sport, or and older adult that is a different story.

[ozark trout fisher]

In my opinion we should keep the bait areas on the trout parks the way they are. There does need to be some water for bait fisherman, and what better place than a stretch of stream that has it's population replenished on a daily basis?

But I think it is outside of the parks that bait fishing does it's damage. I have no problem with bait fishing whatsoever ( I honestly think it's a respectable way to fish) but some of the smaller White Ribbon areas simply can't be exposed to serious meat getting techniques and still sustain quality fishing outside of the week of a stocking. As Outside Bend himself pointed out, trout water in Missouri is a finite resource. Managing some of that resource in a way that causes the trout population to be extremely unstable is a great waste of that resource.