Divers Take Note

[Tim Smith]

Just as I feel we haven't significantly raised the Earth's temperature I don't feel it is possible for the human race to do the opposite. I think we are just along for the ride like the skier on the graph. We can't control the ups and downs anymore than he. With that being said I would still like to see the changes discussed be implemented, so can't we quit debating this subject that people from each extreme have agreed that there is no concrete evidence pointing to yes or no and work together toward those changes?

JDC, you set a very good tone...respectful and focused and appealing for calm.

Unfortunately, even though you've done a good job expressing your feelings on this issue, you haven't addressed the facts.

Everyone is clear that the climate changes with or without human influences. However, when you discount the human role in the current warming trend is to set yourself against the concensus of the people who went into the field and obtained the data for the graph you posted. The people who spend their whole lives studying these facts may respect how you feel, but they would be doing you a great disservice not to tell you that you are badly confused about how to interpret that information.

You as an individual may feel like that helpless skier. But the fact is that we as a group are building the hill you're going over right now. That is why dicussions like this are important. We have to get on the same page and address the real issue, or yes we will be helpless.

Unfortunately, the happy truce you suggest doesn't do the whole job.

For instance, if we both agree that we should use less oil, we've made no real progress if we then immediately switch to coal (as the coal companies in the intermountain west are currently promoting with a radio campaign).

We've got to get serious about the science and find a way to work together.

[Tim Smith]

Says who?

It's an important question, I'm glad you asked.

Here a summary of recent trends from NOAA (2008).

And here's the national assessment from 2000.

The prediction from 2000 for future trends (p. 52) was:

Precipitation is likely to continue its upward trend,at a slightly

accelerated rate;10 to 30% increases are projected across much of the region.

Despite the increases in precipitation,increases in temperature and other meteorological

factors are likely to lead to a substantial increase in evaporation,causing a

soil moisture deficit, reduction in lake and river levels,and more drought-like conditions

in much of the region. In addition,increases in the proportion of precipitation

coming from heavy and extreme precipitation are very likely.

[ness]

Maybe we should all get together and discuss this around a campfire. A real hot, smoky one.

[Smalliebigs]

So are we supposed to sell our jet boats???? never run my two stroke Evinrude outboard jet any more?? Sell my new SeaArk with the nice new four stroke Suzuki???....Guilt myself into not using gas anymore???

What about all of the develpoing countries of the world who will soon be burning more fossil fuels the the US, like China and India, who treat the enviroment like it's whiping boy???

I have been recycling like a fiend since 1997, we only throw away one bag of solid waste away a month and thats only because it starts smelling to bad. I involve myself in several different trash pickups in Saint Louis County and in Kirkwood, we have "Trash Bashes". I also am a member of three stream teams, dedicated to cleaning specific creeks and streams, everyone here are familiar with those.

I have three vehicles that comsume gas and all three can tow a boat. I am not going to guilt myself for having a trucks, I have boats that need to be trailered and I have land that needs to be worked and maintained.

Maybe someday there will be electrical machinery that will fit my needs???

I was never questioning whether it's possible that the industrial revolution created by man is causing global warming. Hey it's possible.I just think that when Justin mentioned Al Gore it's super cereal stuff.

The link he provided I though also had a bit of an angle or at the very least an agenda prior to publishing.I like a little more neutral slant.

I won't guilt myself for beeing a boater and a commuter.

[Tim Smith]

So are we supposed to sell our jet boats???? never run my two stroke Evinrude outboard jet any more?? Sell my new SeaArk with the nice new four stroke Suzuki???....Guilt myself into not using gas anymore???

I won't guilt myself for beeing a boater and a commuter.

Guilt doesn't lower emissions does it.

I have actually worked with polluting industries and had a little success helping them reduce emmissions. In my experience the things that make the biggest difference in emissions are the big process-oriented shifts. Those shifts usually happen when they become cost-effective and make good business sense. So once you can buy an electric power boat that will still give you an adrenaline rush (or the economy crashes or gas taxes go nuts and you can't afford gas anymore) those problems go away.

In the meantime, sure, it would help if you cut back on the power boating boating or found a car to use in your commute that gets better mileage. I could argue that I catch more fish out of a kayak than most people do out of their bass boats...but I'll spare you that for now. If you at least recognize the issue and you aren't rolling in paranoia you're way ahead of most.

I also hear you about the developing nations.

I work a lot in Belize. The coral reef that drives 1/3 of their economy is dying, mostly because of climate change that originated in developing nations. I don't spend much time telling them to cut back consumption down there because it would just be too freaking hypocritical (plus it's only 300,000 people so they barely matter in the carbon budget anyway). I do, however, spend a lot of time working to reduce coastal erosion and pointing out that they shouldn't be building where the sea level is going to rise over the next few decades.

[Trout Commander]

It's an important question, I'm glad you asked.

Here a summary of recent trends from NOAA (2008).

And here's the national assessment from 2000.

The prediction from 2000 for future trends (p. 52) was:

Thank you for the reputable links, Tim. This afternoon at work is shaping up to be much busier than we were this morning and I hope to spend most of my weekend with my family and/or outdoors fishing or muzzleloader hunting so it will be Monday morning at the earliest before I read through them.

I just didn't want you to think that since I didn't reply (until then) that your time and effort was for naught.

[Smalliebigs]

Guilt doesn't lower emissions does it.

I have actually worked with polluting industries and had a little success helping them reduce emmissions. In my experience the things that make the biggest difference in emissions are the big process-oriented shifts. Those shifts usually happen when they become cost-effective and make good business sense. So once you can buy an electric power boat that will still give you an adrenaline rush (or the economy crashes or gas taxes go nuts and you can't afford gas anymore) those problems go away.

In the meantime, sure, it would help if you cut back on the power boating boating or found a car to use in your commute that gets better mileage. I could argue that I catch more fish out of a kayak than most people do out of their bass boats...but I'll spare you that for now. If you at least recognize the issue and you aren't rolling in paranoia you're way ahead of most.

I also hear you about the developing nations.

I work a lot in Belize. The coral reef that drives 1/3 of their economy is dying, mostly because of climate change that originated in developing nations. I don't spend much time telling them to cut back consumption down there because it would just be too freaking hypocritical (plus it's only 300,000 people so they barely matter in the carbon budget anyway). I do, however, spend a lot of time working to reduce coastal erosion and pointing out that they shouldn't be building where the sea level is going to rise over the next few decades.

Please spare me the argument that you catch more fish out of your kayak than I do out of any of my boats.I have a baby right now and my fishing time has been sliced and diced recently.I have two canoes, three kayaks and a paddle board that I fish off of. Hopefully that will make you feel better about my carbon footprint.Oh...but I do have 5 hp yamaha 4 stroke outboard for the one canoe oops there goes my footprint getting bigger again.

[Mitch f]

Guilt doesn't lower emissions does it.

I have actually worked with polluting industries and had a little success helping them reduce emmissions. In my experience the things that make the biggest difference in emissions are the big process-oriented shifts. Those shifts usually happen when they become cost-effective and make good business sense. So once you can buy an electric power boat that will still give you an adrenaline rush (or the economy crashes or gas taxes go nuts and you can't afford gas anymore) those problems go away.

In the meantime, sure, it would help if you cut back on the power boating boating or found a car to use in your commute that gets better mileage. I could argue that I catch more fish out of a kayak than most people do out of their bass boats...but I'll spare you that for now. If you at least recognize the issue and you aren't rolling in paranoia you're way ahead of most.

I also hear you about the developing nations.

I work a lot in Belize. The coral reef that drives 1/3 of their economy is dying, mostly because of climate change that originated in developing nations. I don't spend much time telling them to cut back consumption down there because it would just be too freaking hypocritical (plus it's only 300,000 people so they barely matter in the carbon budget anyway). I do, however, spend a lot of time working to reduce coastal erosion and pointing out that they shouldn't be building where the sea level is going to rise over the next few decades.

Tim,

With all due respect, I don't go for the adrenaline rush when fishing with my jet boat, I know many do, but they probably aren't the people on this forum. I also know that I can run and fish all day long on 6 gallons of fuel. I'm also not sure a person in a kayak can out fish people with a jet boat. But that's another forum topic.

[Tim Smith]

Please spare me the argument that you catch more fish out of your kayak than I do out of any of my boats.I have a baby right now and my fishing time has been sliced and diced recently.I have two canoes, three kayaks and a paddle board that I fish off of. Hopefully that will make you feel better about my carbon footprint.Oh...but I do have 5 hp yamaha 4 stroke outboard for the one canoe oops there goes my footprint getting bigger again.

I have no interest in judging you or bragging about my kayak.

I might make fun of you for using a paddleboat, however.

[Smalliebigs]

Paddle Board....not boat. It's a paddle board...a Versa Board By Liquidlogic or Nativewatercraft

I stand up and paddle it with out the use of evil fossil fuels