Canoe Outfitting

[id10t]

The beauty of a canoe is that you CAN outfit it exactly how you want to. I wouldn't have done any of the things you did, but if it works for you it's perfect.

But for others who may be considering outfitting a tandem canoe for solo use, I just want to point out something...

I'm assuming that when you paddled the canoe solo before making your alterations, you were paddling from the stern seat. The reason a canoe like that feels tippy is not entirely due to the height of the seat, it's also where you sit. When sitting in the stern seat, or even in the bow seat turned around backwards as many paddling a tandem canoe solo do, you're sitting at a relatively narrow part of the boat, and on a canoe like yours it's quite narrow. Small differences in your balance will make for larger effects when you're sitting at a narrow end. Move your sitting position closer to the wider middle of the boat and you'll immediately notice an increase in primary or initial stability. It won't affect final stability as much, but it will definitely make the canoe feel a lot more stable. I've had people who owned Old Town Pack solo canoes really complain that they are tippy, but the first thing I did with mine was move the seat forward to near the center of the canoe, and I found mine to be quite stable. I even RAISED the seat on mine.

Another thing about paddling solo from the stern...you CAN make the canoe more stable from that position by lowering the seat. I never want to do that because the lower the seat is, the more difficult I find it to get in and out of the boat, and when fishing I like a little extra height above the water. You can also make the boat more stable by loading it fairly heavily and loading it so that it's almost perfectly level front to back, but I could never see loading a canoe down with extra stuff like rocks just so it would be trimmed level. And one other thing about paddling from the stern, as I'm sure you already know...it is much more difficult to keep the canoe going straight when you want to paddle down a long dead pool or across the lake. It takes a lot more correction on each paddle stroke.

I don't mean to rain on your parade. You may find your modifications to be exactly what you wanted. And if you are going to be using the canoe tandem at any time, no matter how seldom, it pays to keep the seating arrangement to where you can do so. But if I was setting that canoe up for strictly solo use, I'd move the rear seat forward as far as I could and still be able to reach over the gunwales to paddle efficiently. For the average size paddler, about the maximum width where you can paddle efficiently is 31 inches or so. I'd measure the width of the canoe at several points, and where it was about 30-31 inches wide is where I'd want the center of the paddling seat to be.

AL,

Everything you said is spot on. I gave consideration to all of the points before I made my changes. I would have set it up solo but I do like it when my wife decides she wants to go. It is rare but this gives me the option. There is enough room to go to my knees and move forward should rough water be encountered. I can also use the center seat if I need to. While it is intended to be a fishing deck it is also a seat frame. I also keep a 30L drybag with me to fill with water and use in the bow to level the boat out if needed.

[eric1978]

You got over 40 holes in your boat now. I hope I'm wrong for your sake, but I would worry that some of those holes would develop cracks. Especially if they are subjected to being pulled tight.

Yep, this was my initial reaction, too. I know guys do that to their canoes sometimes, but is it really worth it? I think I would have at least made the holes in the gunwales...you can still lash stuff down just fine up there. And if you take a trip down a bunch of wavy water, that's just more you'll be taking in, little by little. But what's done is done, hope it works out for you.

I might look and see if I could find some kind of grommets to fit those holes, and epoxy or somehow "rivet" them in. I think they would maybe help prevent cracks forming on the exposed edges of the plastic, and more evenly distribute the pressure when gear is tied down, plus they would prevent your ropes from fraying.

It does look pretty cool though, and will definitely be functional for hauling all those pit bulls.

[Gavin]

Not sold on the lacing either. Its a good idea if your tying in float bags for WW canoeing...but thats not a WW boat...a couple a bunges seems to get it done..

[ColdWaterFshr]

Here is ColdwaterFshr @ 6'0 185 lbs + at least 350-400 lbs or shtuff. The MR Legend is the same boat as the Dagger Reflection which was discontinued. Anyway, I'm sitting in the bow seat, but I've paddled it loaded from the center seat, which mine has, and also the stern seat. Can't really tell much difference in how it handles other than the more weight I add the slower it is to respond. Other than that, I've never felt real tippy in it except when it is completely empty with just me. I wouldn't want the seat any lower just because it cramps up my knees more and as Al said its harder to get in and out of.

[Smalliebigs]

Billy Gibbons on the Current River????? sweet!!!

[GloryDaze]

That's impressive, makes me realize how much more I could add in weight if needed- I have to ask, how long of a trip were you on there- please tell me more than a night or two??

[eric1978]

That's impressive, makes me realize how much more I could add in weight if needed- I have to ask, how long of a trip were you on there- please tell me more than a night or two??

...or two weeks

[ColdWaterFshr]

Yep, Billy Gibbons on the Current. Slip inside my sleeping bag, wasn't that one of their songs?

Short trip . . . 1 night for me anyway. Most of that stuff isn't mine, but we had to divide stuff up to carry the wall tent and poles. I had the tent stove up in the front which is probably 50-60 lbs. Also a good sized propane tank, a 40lb two burner stove w/legs, 5 gal water, cooler full of food, and each of those boundary bags are probably 50 lbs.

Gavin's picture is in front of Ness' Hole I believe.

[id10t]

Yep, this was my initial reaction, too. I know guys do that to their canoes sometimes, but is it really worth it? I think I would have at least made the holes in the gunwales...you can still lash stuff down just fine up there. And if you take a trip down a bunch of wavy water, that's just more you'll be taking in, little by little. But what's done is done, hope it works out for you.

I might look and see if I could find some kind of grommets to fit those holes and epoxy or somehow "rivet" them in. I think they would maybe help prevent cracks forming on the exposed edges of the plastic and more evenly distribute the pressure when gear is tied down, plus they would prevent your ropes from fraying.

It does look pretty cool though, and will definitely be functional for hauling all those pit bulls.

The amount over water coming over the gunwales in white water will be far greater than anything that would seep through the holes in the side. The holes are self sealing with the rope to a point. The hole in the boat is 15/64th and the rope is 1/4 in. The tubing is 7/16 OD x 5/16 ID it takes the pressure on the inside from the loop. It also makes the rope a straight pull through the hull there is really no need for grommets. As for rivets they are the worst thing you can use on royelex unless they have a good backing to spread out the pressure. Smashing the inner foam cores are what causes the cracks to happen. Every royalex boat has holes drilled to attach the gunwales unless they are wood. It is rare for them to crack around the holes. It takes a lot of pressure to crack the outer skin of royalex and in most cases it only cracks when it below 20 degrees.

[eric1978]

I didn't notice the tubing. That's probably a big help. Definitely a cool looking ride, and nice, neat work on the mods, too. Didn't mean to slam your project, just thinking out loud. Well done.