Cnty Parks

[Justin Spencer]

Where did Joe go?

I know many private sector employees (Fed ex for one) have had to take pay cuts, they can either accept that or hit the road. I don't think MOST govt. state, county, or city employees are overpayed, but they somehow think they should be immune to cutbacks or salary and benefit decreases. I think private companies are finding that some of their workers now can do the job that 2 used to do because they want to work hard to keep their job. Govt. employees need to realize the same thing. I have worked for several state agencies, and previous employees had done the groundwork for making my jobs extremely easy. I had things that had to be done, and had no trouble getting it done in about 20 hours per week while getting paid for 40, I tried to go above and beyond to continue up the ladder, but many people are happy to just coast along. Unfortunately that is just how it goes, I don't blame any of the workers for this, but the culture needs to change.

[joeD]

Joe's right here, in your computer.

I don't work for the county. I have nothing against county workers. I have no thought about how they are compensated.

Let's say they are overcompensated and their payments to retirees are above the norm. Let's say they do take salary freezes, furloughs, reduced retirement packages.

With that done, I still don't believe that those savings would be enough to make up for the county's budget woes. There aren't enough employees.

So, with our salary discrepancy anger appeased, are we, as public area consumers, willing to buck up even more to support things we use?

[exiledguide]

THIS!!!

You should also not be allowed to collectively bargain with your government employer. Lets see, you get to vote in the boss, and then (wink wink) you get to go into negotiations with your new boss about better salaries or benefits (at the cost of your fellow citizens). And then your negotiations get taken into consideration and what do ya know, you get what you wanted from your elected buddy. It's a conflict of interest that even LBJ recognized (you know, that champion of conservatism...)

You would have fit right in Munich in 1935.

[Jack Jones]

I work in government. The pay is less than what I could earn in the private sector. The benefits are less than what are offered in comparable jobs in the private sector. Each year, they cut our benefits, and have us pay a little more. We may get a few more holidays than the private sector, but that's it. I chose to work here because I wanted to serve the people in the community I live in. I did it because I wanted to help other people, not pursue pure profit.

Please keep in mind that there really aren't too many over inflated salaries and glorious benefits for the majority of government employees. There may be for those at the top, but certainly not the rank and file. This is no different than any private corporation.

As for the right to negotiate and unionize, I cannot imagine how any red-blooded American could even be opposed to the concept of a group of workers getting together to voice their desires, to pressure their employer to get what they want, and to work together to ensure their health and safety. At its core, America is founded on the ideal of people banding together to obtain their rights and benefits that were otherwise denied, or not properly awarded them. Nothing is more American that Unions. Without them, we would likely return to the days of 12-16 hour days, 7 days a week, and minimal wages. Please take some time to read about the history of wage workers around the Haymarket Era in the late 1800's and then tell me you still disagree.

UNION YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Phil Lilley]

Probably shouldn't make this a union vs non union discussion or it won't last long...

I think there's enough people that have an interested in St Louis Co Parks to keep this topic open as long as it keeps on topic.

[stlfisher]

I have no problem with paying something extra to keep the parks open if need be. However, I just don't trust that my money will actually be used for that purpose. Hey let's just borrow like we did with social security...that was a great idea! Bottom line is I have zero faith anyone in any party is capable of making a logical choice. That make me more than hesitant to vote for any increase in any tax until it is proven we can spend within our means.

[Jack Jones]

Didn't mean to pit this pro v. anti union. I think STLFisher has the right idea. My experience has been that the elected's always seem to find the money to fund their pet projects, while letting others go by the wayside or arguing for more money to the exclusion of their pet projects.

I loved the STL county parks when I lived up there. I so hope they save them. Lone Elk was especially a treat for the children. Bee Tree was a favorite of mine on the Mississippi, and I did enjoy fishing Susson.

[Al Agnew]

We all want all kinds of government things, but we just don't want to pay for them. If it's something we don't care about, then fine, cut the heck out of it, close it, sell it off. If it's something we care about, how dare you even consider cutting it!!!??? Oh, but how dare you ask me to give you more of my hard-earned money to pay for it!!!??? If it wasn't so sad it would be hilarious.

I don't know exactly what the finances of St. Louis County are. I'm sure there is waste and there are employees that are getting more money than their job is worth. Whether there are enough places to save money elsewhere that the county could keep these parks open without a tax increase is questionable...who knows?

But what you have to think about, and what few people seem willing to consider, is that the people of St. Louis County are going to pay, one way or another. Close the parks...and not only do you lose the parks, you lose one of the draws of this county both to visitors and to prospective companies or people moving in. You reduce the quality of life in the county, and make it a less attractive place to visit or locate. Cut a bunch of government employees elsewhere in order to save enough money to keep the parks open, and all those former employees go right into an already stressed job market, further growing unemployment, as well as those other government services probably suffering. Or make the people pay more directly to keep the parks open, either in taxes or user fees. There's no free lunch and there's no perfect answer.

[Mitch f]

We all want all kinds of government things, but we just don't want to pay for them. If it's something we don't care about, then fine, cut the heck out of it, close it, sell it off. If it's something we care about, how dare you even consider cutting it!!!??? Oh, but how dare you ask me to give you more of my hard-earned money to pay for it!!!??? If it wasn't so sad it would be hilarious.

I don't know exactly what the finances of St. Louis County are. I'm sure there is waste and there are employees that are getting more money than their job is worth. Whether there are enough places to save money elsewhere that the county could keep these parks open without a tax increase is questionable...who knows?

But what you have to think about, and what few people seem willing to consider, is that the people of St. Louis County are going to pay, one way or another. Close the parks...and not only do you lose the parks, you lose one of the draws of this county both to visitors and to prospective companies or people moving in. You reduce the quality of life in the county, and make it a less attractive place to visit or locate. Cut a bunch of government employees elsewhere in order to save enough money to keep the parks open, and all those former employees go right into an already stressed job market, further growing unemployment, as well as those other government services probably suffering. Or make the people pay more directly to keep the parks open, either in taxes or user fees. There's no free lunch and there's no perfect answer.

Well said

[ColdWaterFshr]

As I think Gavin said, this is all a ploy, to call attention to the problem and eventually try to get concessions on some other front. Politics. Not a tea partier or occupier, but govt wants to grow itself constantly and they are always broke because of it.