Last Known Stocking

[Chief Grey Bear]

That is strange. I have read many of the writings of Spencer Turner, a now retired MDC biologist and the probably the foremost authority of Missouri trout, and he states the MDC stocked Crane into the 60's.

[Flysmallie]

That is strange. I have read many of the writings of Spencer Turner, a now retired MDC biologist and the probably the foremost authority of Missouri trout, and he states the MDC stocked Crane into the 60's.

So where are the writings that he states this in? Not arguing, just as curious as everyone else.

I can't remember where I read it, and it may have been BS, but at some point I did read that the rainbows in Crane are more pure to the McCloud strain than the actual rainbows that reside in the McCloud river today. I wish I knew where I saw that, but I have trouble believing that. How would anybody be able to figure that out. Looks like it will always be a mystery.

[drew03cmc]

In certain portions of the McCloud River, you are right, however, there are isolated stretches of the McCloud which are virtually inaccessible to non-native fish due to falls and what not.

[Phil Lilley]

I've emailed Spence and asked where I can find his writings on this.

[Chief Grey Bear]

So where are the writings that he states this in? Not arguing, just as curious as everyone else.

I had this stuff saved on my old computer. I am searching now but having trouble finding it. It was out there in Cyber land and I usually ran across it while researching something else. Maybe I read it wrong but that has always stuck in my head. In fact as I think about it, I think I have linked some of those here. Give me sometime to run through all of my post to OAF. If you will read the link I provided on the first page by Jerry Dean, he credits most of the info to Spence and it also states the MDC stocked into the 60's.

Now it is also my understanding that these were sporadic stockings and nothing like what we know them as today.

I've emailed Spence and asked where I can find his writings on this.

I almost did that last night myself. I'll thaw out some crow I have in the freezer just incase I am wrong, but I just know I read that from him. I am still searching too.

[Chief Grey Bear]

I can't remember where I read it, and it may have been BS, but at some point I did read that the rainbows in Crane are more pure to the McCloud strain than the actual rainbows that reside in the McCloud river today. I wish I knew where I saw that, but I have trouble believing that. How would anybody be able to figure that out. Looks like it will always be a mystery.

I also recall reading that somewhere. Something about the particular strain was used for all of this cross country stocking not being in the McCloud river anymore. Seems like Crane and only about 4 other places in the US actually has this original strain. But like you, I have no idea where I read it other than it was in Cyber space. A place where as quickly as things are found, they are forever lost again.

And you know, as curious as I am about this, I am not sure we really want to know. As much as I love to research and learn this stuff, maybe we should just let it be. I mean, if we did indeed find out that these are not as pure as we think, will it ruin the mystique and magic of Crane?

[eric1978]

IMHO...If there's no obvious difference in appearance, then it's just another rainbow. The tales of a pure McCloud strain just add mystique to the creek. And who can be sure they were actually McClouds to begin with?

Anywhere they maintain a wild population in MO is special as far as I'm concerned.

[ness]

I find this pretty interesting, and I wish I had the time to research it. Hopefully Spence Turner will shed some light on this.

The US Fisheries Bulletins at the NOAA site are a wealth of information, but man they're hard to wade through. There are a few I've copied off and kept over the years, but they don't address this specific question. I do vaguely remember something about some later stockings, but I don't remember thinking it spoiled the 'pure' McCloud story.

Seems like the official line has always been 'no recorded stockings' which is easily translated into 'no stockings'. And the vast majority of the info floating around is word of mouth, not documented stocking info. So I've always had a bit of skepticism about the whole thing. Essentially all trout everywhere are mutts. Even the extensive efforts of Colorado to isolate pure Greenbacks weren't successful -- years later some scientist found a couple Rainbow genes mixed in. Pure? Nope, but that's thee best we've got.

Regardless, like some others have said, it's a pretty special place with a good story, and I like all that. It doesn't really matter to me that there may be a few funky genes mixed in. It bothers me more to see tires, Gatorade bottles and other non-biodegradable stuff in the creek.

[stlfisher]

For me the "McCloud mystique" is a nice addition. Pure strain maybe, maybe not, but I think Crane is still special/unique simply because the trout most likely have at the least some McCloud heritage, maybe not pure, but at least some. The toughest and strongest of that bunch has survived and reproduced in an environment far from home in a place that is not ideal for trout. All this was occuring while they were stuggling or mixing with other strains in their home range. That is good enough for me to move Crane into the unigue/special places I would want to fish.

I admit I am eager to see if there is any evidence of secret stockings at a later date. And yes, I agree the MDC wouldn't report it if there were true, but I still question why they would do that and keep it secret for so long. Personally, I think the more likely scenario is the MDC is using, on occasion, some of the eggs from Crane to help fertilize our hatchery fish. What could be more effective than using a strain of fish that has been displaced, but has managed to find a way to survive and reproduce successfully in MO for 100 of years?

[Phil Lilley]

Heard from Spence -

To my knowledge Crane Creek has not been stocked by MDC since formation of

the department. It would be hard not to stock if you had a hatchery

nearby...Neosho. My perusal of the Neosho records suggest that it was not

stocked past the first few years, but records are limited...wonder if Heinz

has completely reviewed the two stocking record books and kept notes on

where trout were stocked. Years past I went through the books, but my

records have since been sent on to MDC, where I suspect they were "filed."

Anyway, the hatchery records from 1889 and 1890+ are still at the hatchery,

but I have no idea what condition the books are now in...might be worth

pursuing.