Trespass

[Justin Spencer]

. And I don't like when I hear some idiot's subwoofer driving past my house in the middle of the night. But I don't jump up and call the cops. I deal with it. If it really bothered me I'd move away from roads.

Good analogy, after you've been in the sticks a while you forget about city life. When people ask me about getting a place on the river I always tell them I would get one over on a nearby creek since it does not have the summer traffic this river has, and you won't have the noise problems that most people are looking to get away from when they buy a place on a river. Prospective buyers need to be aware of what they are getting in to when they purchase a piece of property is it close to a nightclub where you might get the sub-woofer noise, is it near an airport, are jetboats and giggers using their section of river, etc. We all deal with inconvieniences in our lives, some just can't accept the world doesn't revolve around them (Prater) and they cause problems for the rest of us.

[ness]

Clarity of the law is what we would all like to see and the word "easement" comes to mind. I would like to see a published list of stream or public waterways, such as many of those listed in the MDC Floating book. Set a 20 foot from the waterline rule - as public easement, much like a public sidewalk that runs through your front yard. High water line is too variable and therefore too vague. If its not public land, obviously no camping is allowed, even within the 20 ft easement. For those streams that are NOT on the list, there would be NO public easement -- you must stay IN the water and not "loiter" -- however you want to define loiter.

That's some pretty solid logic there, Andrew. I wonder if any states have a setup like that?

All that aside, JD is spot-on. You get more flies with sugar than shinola, er whatever. Respect, plus courtesy and common sense will get you further than insisting on being right will.

Anybody who can boil down the stream access law into three or four bullet points wins a prize (to be announced at a later date).

[Justin Spencer]

1. GET

2. OFF

3. MY

4. LAWN!

[Trout Commander]

I agree with you, but it would do much to diffuse this situation if a whole lot less people used gravel bars as their own personal party space.

I have yet to see a post on this forum anywhere that says that anyone feel like the should?

I was only using the words the OP threw around.

[ozark trout fisher]

This seems to be a different issue from that of Mr. Greybear.

I know. I have no reason to believe that Chief did anything wrong, and that his situation was anything other than the result of a none too sane landowner. What I'm saying is unrelated to that case.

[Feathers and Fins]

This is my greatest fear as far as the Flowing water's part of this goes. Sooner or later some property owner is going to come walking down to a stream and threaten someone who has a gun and the person with the gun will take it as a threat to life and shoot the land owner or we will get the OK Corral shoot out. More and More people each year are using the streams, rivers creeks and lakes and I see this as unavoidable if the law enforcement divisions do not start telling landowners who do these action what is the law.

The only solution is the law clairified and people made aware of it from Joe Floater and Jeff Fishermen to Mike the Property owner and the Law men.

[ozark trout fisher]

This is my greatest fear as far as the Flowing water's part of this goes. Sooner or later some property owner is going to come walking down to a stream and threaten someone who has a gun and the person with the gun will take it as a threat to life and shoot the land owner or we will get the OK Corral shoot out.

I agree. If less people had the "Old West" mentality, thinking it's necessary to have a gun with you at all times, these situations wouldn't have the potential to get so bad. I'm referring to both landowners and folks using the rivers here.

Not to get off topic, but guns are for hunting, or for self defense in the most extreme of circumstances. They're not something that you ought to be carrying with you all the time "just in case" , or even to threaten someone off you're property if they are trespassing. In truth, though it's wrong and I wouldn't do it now, who among us hasn't trespassed sometime in the past when we were young, rabbit hunting, fishing, or just hiking around? A landowner with carrying a gun and a trigger-happy attitude is a good way for minor situations to get out of hand quickly and unnecessarily.

[Feathers and Fins]

OTF, that is what my concern is. I have a CCP and well when waterfowling carry a shotgun. If someone came down screaming at me with a gun in hand I would probably do whatever I felt was needed to defend myself. If I could see them comming from a distance I would retreat if possible but forced into a corner with a gun carrying person yelling and screaming at me. I could easily see myself and otheSr in a situation where deadly force would be used.

My best friend just finished his CC course and there was 72 people in it. More and more people are taking the course and carrying. Its only a matter of time I fear before the old west mentality catches up to someone. I hope I never am the one who it catches up with and I hope noone here is or anyone for that matter but I see it comming.

[joeD]

Nobody in this forum will be breaking the law anytime soon. We're not going to shoot anyone, nor are we going to get shot at. We are going to fish our streams just as we always have, having fun in the outdoors in a reasonable and respectful manner. I daresay that no one who posts on this forum belong to the class of buffoons and miscreants that we always allude to. While JDs post is valid and has common sense, his advise is redundant to the users of this forum. Because we (on this forum) already behave in a lawful, reasonable, and respectful manner, especially when it comes to our usage of the outdoors. It's like our law officers in St. Louis going to nursing homes and telling the residents not to go to Wellston and buy crack cocaine. Good advise, but...

[ozark trout fisher]

Nobody in this forum will be breaking the law anytime soon. We're not going to shoot anyone, nor are we going to get shot at. We are going to fish our streams just as we always have, having fun in the outdoors in a reasonable and respectful manner. I daresay that no one who posts on this forum belong to the class of buffoons and miscreants that we always allude to. While JDs post is valid and has common sense, his advise is redundant to the users of this forum. Because we (on this forum) already behave in a lawful, reasonable, and respectful manner, especially when it comes to our usage of the outdoors. It's like our law officers in St. Louis going to nursing homes and telling the residents not to go to Wellston and buy crack cocaine. Good advise, but...

Yes JoeD, but all of us on here like to spend a great deal of time idly philosophising about things over which we have absolutely no control:)