The Parable Of The Sheep

[ness]

Hey Mitch,

I guess where I get hung up is on the fact that we can't be perfect in all this. We should know that death is not a deterrent, so what is it really? It's tit for tat. (Sorry Phil, not that kinda tit). It's revenge. If we get even ONE wrong, we're just as bad as the bad guy. Any question in your mind that we haven't executed somebody in error along the way?

This guy is nuts. He doesn't fit. I'm not saying we fight tooth-and-nail to prove he's not responsible -- he is. It doesn't matter if mamma spanked him or Uncle Jerry touched his privates. I'm saying what's the point in killing him? Lock him up and move on. He's got nothing good to offer today, so put him away. If he comes around, let him minister to the other prisoners and convince a parole board.

And then -- there's the whole concept of forgiveness. What a powerful, powerful thing that is. But I know that conversation won't fly in this crowd. But guess what? That's where the comfort lies for the victim's families. That,and only that. Anything else just eats you up.

[jdmidwest]

Good idea Tim.

I was bringing up the fact that the NCAA punishment on Penn State is probably more severe than what the Colorado Court will deal him.

[ness]

By the way Mitch -- I'm with you on most of the rest of your post. Be responsible for what you do. No excuses.

[Mitch f]

And then -- there's the whole concept of forgiveness. What a powerful, powerful thing that is. But that conversation won't fly in this crowd.

You got me there

[ness]

Read up on the Amish response to the Nickle Mines massacre. It's really interesting how they got past it -- when just about anyone would think a different approach was warranted. I thin there's a real lesson in that.

[jdmidwest]

This guy is nuts. He doesn't fit. I'm not saying we fight tooth-and-nail to prove he's not responsible -- he is. It doesn't matter if mamma spanked him or Uncle Jerry touched his privates. I'm saying what's the point in killing him? Lock him up and move on. He's got nothing good to offer today, so put him away. If he comes around, let him minister to the other prisoners and convince a parole board.

And then -- there's the whole concept of forgiveness. What a powerful, powerful thing that is. But I know that conversation won't fly in this crowd. But guess what? That's where the comfort lies for the victim's families. That,and only that. Anything else just eats you up.

What reason would any person come up with to let him keep breathing another day and run the chance he may inspire another to pull the same crap. This case, no reasonable doubt, skip the show and get right to the execution. That alone may make others think before they strike again. Otherwise, just more fuel for the fodder of future mass murders. Lots of publicity and fame, millions spent on trials and protection, lots of TV prime time. This keeps up, in a few years, there will be a reality show about mass murders.

There is no reforming a creature like that, why let it breath another breath. His immediate and public death as punishment for his crimes may be a deterrent to prevent others from happening.

As far as forgiveness goes, he has done something that no man can forgive, taken other lives. Only his god can make the decision to forgive that little sin.

Not one of those victims were given a chance, gunned down by a cold blooded, pre-meditated killer, in the dark of a theater where they felt most comfortable, by a coward that was slinking around for no other reason than to do harm to his fellow man.

[ness]

Oh yeah, JD -- executions are a real deterrent. Whoops -- not this time. This PhD candidate probably hadn't thought of that, right?

You wanna blame this guy's acts on his seeing others do it? Or, blame future acts on this guy? And, somehow, justify his execution as a preventative measure? Good luck. He's nuts. When you've got 300-plus million folks, there's gonna be some nuts. Not to diminish the fact -- it's truly a tragedy. But don't for a minute think executing him fixes things. Holster your gun, cowboy.

And, I didn't say anything about reform -- that's your cop out. Reform isn't the only acceptable outcome. Rewind back to what was said -- simply take this guy out of society. Turns out it's cheaper to do that than execute him anyway.

[jdmidwest]

I'm saying what's the point in killing him? Lock him up and move on. He's got nothing good to offer today, so put him away. If he comes around, let him minister to the other prisoners and convince a parole board.

That statement kinda looks like there may be a chance to reform him and offer him parole??

Every time this has happened since Columbine, it has became a media circus. All they talk about for weeks, then the trial comes around and it gets stirred again. Then the anniversary, it gets stirred again. They become famous, and in their sick little twisted brains, it is the justification and glory for them to see all of it. And yes, I feel it gives others ideas. If we whacked them on live TV and everyone watched that, it may deter a few of them.

Capital punishment works, but it should be enacted swiftly in cases where there is no reasonable doubt. Not 20 years later when most have forgot what they did to deserve it. Other cases, where there is some doubt, that is different. This one is cut and dry, carry out sentence immediately.

[eric1978]

I'm saying what's the point in killing him? Lock him up and move on.

The point is that I don't feel like paying the money to feed, clothe, medicate, shelter and guard this maniac for 60 years. What's the point in keeping him alive? There's no question he's the killer in this case, so execute him and move on. Crazy or no crazy, he's just taking up space and precious oxygen on the planet. He serves no purpose living or dead.

And ness, you said execution costs more than a lifetime of detainment? Well I've never heard that, but if it's true, while we're talking about hypotheticals and wish lists, one of the nutbag's AR-15 rounds couldn't be more than a buck, could it? I'd say a couple bucks at most, right in his orange head, should do the trick.

[Feathers and Fins]

As a gun owner I have followed many of these shootings because the typical response use to be BAN guns, this time around however I am seeing the opposite more prevalent in more armed people might prevent these actions in the future. I don’t think more armed people will solve the issue either, both are knee jerk reactions to fear in my opinion.

What I do think is the problem is attitude of the country, When I was growing up 1^st place was all Americans cared about! To quote General Patton

"Men, this stuff that some sources sling around about America wanting out of this war, not wanting to fight, is a crock of bullshit. Americans love to fight, traditionally. All real Americans love the sting and clash of battle. You are here today for three reasons. First, because you are here to defend your homes and your loved ones. Second, you are here for your own self respect, because you would not want to be anywhere else. Third, you are here because you are real men and all real men like to fight. When you, here, everyone of you, were kids, you all admired the champion marble player, the fastest runner, the toughest boxer, the big league ball players, and the All-American football players. Americans love a winner. Americans will not tolerate a loser. Americans despise cowards. Americans play to win all of the time. I wouldn't give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed. That's why Americans have never lost nor will ever lose a war; for the very idea of losing is hateful to an American."

Self respect is something I think has been lost in this Nation! I never saw a trophy given out to every child, yes the first through 3^rd got them but not beyond that and I cannot tell you who second place in many Bowls or World Series was. Americans truly did not care who was second place all that was important was being 1^st. If you lost you were angry, hurt disappointed and strived to be first the next season. When you were in school you tried hard to pass failure students were ridiculed and laughed at, and parents knew what the rod was and used it as well as groundings and extra choirs if you did fail in school.

The nation has become tolerant and even accepting and rewarding for less than trying to be the best. Self respect is something you learn from your family and friends but when just getting by seems to be the norm now what can we expect? Well we see daily what to expect, and when the government rewards people with entitlement programs for less than best it enables that mentality.

Patton’s speech in its entirety is more about personal accountability and self respect than anything else ( not the movie version but the real version) and one my grandfather had me learn because it really sinks home those values he felt and so do I. I could not post the full speach as it is not very clean but this is the full version, beware it is vulgar, direct and blunt http://www.pattonhq.com/speech.html .

I do not pretend to have solutions to these nutcases but cannot help to think that if more parents were to take control of their kids lives and more politicians were to understand government entitlements were part of the problem we would have a better country. But that goes back to accountability.