Good Smallmouth Creeks?

[ColdWaterFshr]

Required catch and kill of spotted bass is a bit militant, Al, but I'm down with it! Fill a stringer or feed the varmints on the bank.

I'm not convinced that the regulations have had any impact on the smallmouth populations, except in those areas where enforcement of the regs is routine and consistent (not many of those!). Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favor of the strictest of regs for smallmouth. If it were up to me it would they would be a C&R only fish in Missouri.

Here is what I think Okie is getting at and it really seems the most logical. I've added a few things:

1) The catch and keep mentality is still alive and well especially on rivers like the Big, regardless of whatever section you are in or however much you want to believe it is a safehaven because of a regulation. Spots, smallmouth, doesn't matter . . . if its worth filleting, more often than you and I really want to know, it probably goes on a stringer or in a livewell. Yeah there are some more remote sections that probably don't see as much pressure and harvest, but hear me out.

2) We have already talked in great length in other threads about how far smallmouth will travel to wintering holes and then return. So the deck gets re-shuffled every season. Some fish may not move, but most do and we've discussed travel distances as far as 40 miles on fish up in the Huzzah going down to mid-sections of the Meramec to ride-out the winter.

3) So knowing that the smallmouth travel and do this reset every year . . . and whether the spots do or don't to the extent that smallmouth do doesn't really matter . . . but I think a river will find its new equilibrium each and every spring. Maybe a spot beats a smallmouth back to that perfect habitat in the early spring as temps warm. Maybe that smallmouth gets harvested enroute back to that safehaven or home habitat. Each smallmouth of reproductive age that gets removed from a river is much more difficult, or it takes longer anyway, to replace (biologically and ecologically) than that same competing spot. They are more prolific, right? Spots can take more punishment, and don't have to have perfect conditions for a successful spawn to the extent that smallmouth do, right? We know they gobble up the food with just as voracious an appetite as smallmouth do if not more. Less food, more neighbors eating it, habitat in decline . . . but the kicker is having those SMB slow-growing reproducers removed from the population. Not as detrimental to a spot.

[Wayne SW/MO]

2) We have already talked in great length in other threads about how far smallmouth will travel to wintering holes and then return. So the deck gets re-shuffled every season.

Good point.

[Kc River Ratt]

Could be the floods of the 93,and everything went every where. The spots reproduce faster and the methabillies haven't realized that spots are as tasty as smallies.

[cwc87]

While we're on the topic of harvest regulation I believe shorting the catch n keep season. November- Memorial Day Saturday should be a closed catch n keep period. U still can fish and catch them just turn them loose. I see way to many people with stringers around springs and it seems our bigger smallmouth are easier to catch during this time period.

Great points guys!!!

[Al Agnew]

That IS a good point about the reshuffling each winter/spring. I wonder if spotted bass migrate the way SOME smallmouth do. If they don't, or don't go as far, or move back earlier, that could actually be a major reason why they push out the smallmouth. Picture this...

The farther downstream you go on these streams, the more spotted bass there are. When they were first moving in, they "consolidated" their populations on lower sections, and from there moved upstream, colonizing successive upstream sections while maintaining and increasing their populations in downstream sections.

Each winter, a percentage of smallmouth migrated downstream. There, maybe they found a large, non-migrating spotted bass population holding in the best wintering areas. Maybe the smallmouth were simply pushed away from those best areas because too many spots were already there. Maybe they were forced to winter in less optimum areas. Maybe because of that, more of them did not survive the winter.

So, fewer of them went back upstream in the spring. And a percentage of the spotted bass population moved upstream as well. Now there were fewer smallies competing with a number of spots that was increasing every year.

I like that theory. It makes sense. It doesn't explain everything, but it could very well be a major part of the picture.

Another possible component...what if spotted bass hatch out just a little bit earlier than smallmouth. The spotted bass fry get a head start. Maybe they eat a significant percentage of the smallmouth fry. Maybe they just eat up more of the food the smallmouth fry need to survive.

Now I don't know whether that's true or not. It would be interesting to know.

[Smalliebigs]

could also be due to factors such as spots inability to grow to harvest size, kind of like the lakes, so there population just keeps growing with lots of shorts kind of like a farm pond overun by crappie,......also there is more pressure on the rivers than there used to be maybe smallies do not tolerate it as well, or have a tougher time with successful spawns with all the traffic and pressure, also way too many smallies are harvested period. It seems every year when you talk to outfitters people are getting caught keeping smallies during the spawn, how many more are being kept and not being reported? I can say from my own personal experience that it is much easier to catch large smallies in april and may than any other time of year which is during their spawn> its also the time of year you find the heads of the carcasses poached............. and another problem, and I believe it is a big problem is the giggers. They gig whatever moves, smallies, browns, etc. and a lot more people gig now than they used to,,, simply a lot more people now...............I think the problem is mult-faceted, water levels? sure. Over fishing and harrassment during the spawn? absolutley,.spots simply able to grow huge populations while staying under harvest size?...see it all the time,,,, do we lack organized, strict, science based restrictions/seasons/limits with backbone and foresight not influenced by the wishes of a few when it comes to do what is right for most when it comes to our fish populations in Missouri?....of course, some things never change.

What he said.........totally agree okie

[flyrodman]

Could be the floods of the 93,and everything went every where. The spots reproduce faster and the methabillies haven't realized that spots are as tasty as smallies.

Haha!

[Chief Grey Bear]

It is no secret that mammals, birds and insects have been on the move northward since the 80's due to warming conditions. Is there some reason this can not relate to fish? Other than it is not one of the self established theories.

[Al Agnew]

It is no secret that mammals, birds and insects have been on the move northward since the 80's due to warming conditions. Is there some reason this can not relate to fish? Other than it is not one of the self established theories.

Maybe. I can see one possible explanation involving that idea. Perhaps warming water temperatures on the Missouri and Mississippi allowed or encouraged the spotted bass to move up the Mississippi. Has there been that much of a difference in the temperatures of the big rivers, or in the Meramec and other Ozark streams, enough to suddenly start them moving?

Again, it has to be something that allowed, or encouraged, them to move when they never had before. They always had the connection, though it became a lot shorter with the construction of the Diversion Channel, and the habitat was always there, it had to be something that kept them from utilizing the connection to get to the habitat, until the 1970s.

It would be interesting to see if there have been any other areas where spotted bass range is moving northward.

[Terrierman]

solution= keep the spots!!, and if you cant put pressure on the MDC to lower size so they can be harvested. Catch and release is great and I am a big proponent of it, but we got to start keeping the spots.

That suggestion somehow sounds familiar.