Meramec River Shooting

[MOsmallies]

I've debated even getting involved on this thread, but this is an extremely sad and scary story that should have never happened, and I have a few small observations...

- JD mentioned this being similar to having someone walk down your street and pee in your front yard. I respectfully, but highly disagree with this. Peeing on a gravel bar out in the middle of the woods on a river bank is not the same as peeing on someones property in a civilized, metropolitan area. Besides Mardi Gras or similar parades, there aren't weekly hoards of people drinking and having a good time walking/riding down city streets. And in those cases, the city provides port-a-potties for the parade goers to use. peeing on the river happens several thousand times a day on our rivers. As long as someone's not whipping out their goods in front of children, who the hell should care. Definitely shouldn't escalate to a shooting. Floaters... PEE IN THE RIVER. Stand waste deep and let it flow. Act like your just swimming or talking to someone. Everyone's doing it.

- Secondly... Mass floatillas have been occurring on the Meramec since the 70's at least. It's not something new. It's not like Crocker went down to the river on his property that day expecting to have a nice, quiet afternoon enjoying the serenity of the river. If you can't handle hoards of people floating by your property on a weekend afternoon, THEN DON'T BUY/OWN PROPERTY ON THE MERAMEC RIVER... especially in that area!!!!!! It's ridiculous that people think they can own riverfront property especially with a large gravel bar in this day and age and not expect people to stop and get out for a bit. As long as you don't give them trouble, they'll most likely stay for a beer and move on. If you can't handle or understand that then don't hang out on the river on a Saturday in July. Go build a private lake on your private land and shoot your gun in the air as much as you want. Or find a creek that is to small to be floated. I want to be clear, that I'm not saying its right that there are so many floaters on our rivers hanging out drunk and disorderly, but It's naive for any of us to not expect it on summer weekends. It has happened for decades and will continue to moving forward whether we the fisherman or landowners like it or not. So if you can't handle it, then avoid it. It's a lot easier for one person to leave than 5,000 people.

- Thirdly, If I saw that dude come out of the woods NOT holding a gun, I would have ran away (much less holding a gun and shooting off warning shots). Nothing good can come from a crazed looking, meth head hoosier like that. Gun or or no gun.

[Wayne SW/MO]

Sounds like the landowner had a serious mental problem. He had to be waiting and looking for trouble, you don't just happen to come across someone pissing in the woods, have a gun and fire it for effect if you're in your right mind. There are also those landowners who migrate from cities who also have a different mindset.

They guy went looking and was willing to pull the trigger and going from air to a head isn't going to get self defense,rock or no rock. They women had a right in the face of someone shooting thirt direction to arm herself.

The problem with navigatble lies in the interpretation. At one time it meant any waterway that could be used for navigation. Any year around waterway could be used by early inhabitants for direction. If you're lost a permenent stream is a reliable direction.

[moguy1973]

They guy went looking and was willing to pull the trigger and going from air to a head isn't going to get self defense,rock or no rock.

That's a big point in my mind on how the outcome is going to be. This guy was out to kill someone for peeing on "his" sandbar. He could have shot someone in the leg or the arm to prove his point, but nope, he took a head shot.

[Lancer09]

I've debated even getting involved on this thread, but this is an extremely sad and scary story that should have never happened, and I have a few small observations...

- JD mentioned this being similar to having someone walk down your street and pee in your front yard. I respectfully, but highly disagree with this. Peeing on a gravel bar out in the middle of the woods on a river bank is not the same as peeing on someones property in a civilized, metropolitan area. Besides Mardi Gras or similar parades, there aren't weekly hoards of people drinking and having a good time walking/riding down city streets. And in those cases, the city provides port-a-potties for the parade goers to use. peeing on the river happens several thousand times a day on our rivers. As long as someone's not whipping out their goods in front of children, who the hell should care. Definitely shouldn't escalate to a shooting. Floaters... PEE IN THE RIVER. Stand waste deep and let it flow. Act like your just swimming or talking to someone. Everyone's doing it.

- Secondly... Mass floatillas have been occurring on the Meramec since the 70's at least. It's not something new. It's not like Crocker went down to the river on his property that day expecting to have a nice, quiet afternoon enjoying the serenity of the river. If you can't handle hoards of people floating by your property on a weekend afternoon, THEN DON'T BUY/OWN PROPERTY ON THE MERAMEC RIVER... especially in that area!!!!!! It's ridiculous that people think they can own riverfront property especially with a large gravel bar in this day and age and not expect people to stop and get out for a bit. As long as you don't give them trouble, they'll most likely stay for a beer and move on. If you can't handle or understand that then don't hang out on the river on a Saturday in July. Go build a private lake on your private land and shoot your gun in the air as much as you want. Or find a creek that is to small to be floated. I want to be clear, that I'm not saying its right that there are so many floaters on our rivers hanging out drunk and disorderly, but It's naive for any of us to not expect it on summer weekends. It has happened for decades and will continue to moving forward whether we the fisherman or landowners like it or not. So if you can't handle it, then avoid it. It's a lot easier for one person to leave than 5,000 people.

- Thirdly, If I saw that dude come out of the woods NOT holding a gun, I would have ran away (much less holding a gun and shooting off warning shots). Nothing good can come from a crazed looking, meth head hoosier like that. Gun or or no gun.

This. All of this. It's not like people don't know What happens on our rivers in the summer. While not always right, if you don't like it. Don't be present for it.

Maybe it's just because I fall under the demographic who do a lot of the harm (college age adults), but I place significantly more blame on the shooter. If I were to put myself in the guy who got shot's shoes, I think there is a chance I would have done the same thing he did. Drunk or not. There isn't a whole lot wrong with floating a river and having a few beers. Unfortunately those who are pissthebed drunk do the most damage and give a bad reputation to the rest of us. I don't throw my beer cans on the shore or in the river. I don't yell or make obscene gestures. And I don't take this awesome resource we have for granted.

[Justin Spencer]

I agree. I do not think this legislature would treat floaters well.

#1 thing with all politicians is the money. I think both parties will rule in favor of more money for the state especially when it is on the side of small business, over that of individual property rights. A lot more people use the rivers than own property on the rivers. It won't be an issue in the National Scenic Riverways as it is already govt. owned along those streams.

[Greasy B]

#1 thing with all politicians is the money. I think both parties will rule in favor of more money for the state especially when it is on the side of small business, over that of individual property rights. A lot more people use the rivers than own property on the rivers. It won't be an issue in the National Scenic Riverways as it is already govt. owned along those streams.

I wish I could agree but I have very little faith in our current group of representatives. I think the Missouri Farm bureau would get their way and we would all be screwed.

[awhuber]

I wish I could agree but I have very little faith in our current group of representatives. I think the Missouri Farm bureau would get their way and we would all be screwed.

If you did succeed in taking the river front owners property, how would you come up with the cash to compensate them?

What about the county's school children that would lose the tax money?

[405z06]

https://www.facebook.com/james.crocker.900

Here is the shooter's Facebook page. A handfull of pictures, and bunch of anti-religion posts, but nothing of great interest. I thought I would throw it out there.

[remi74]

It really hit home when I read about the shooting. I've had my share of issues with land owners in Ar. Folks in Mo are truly lucky. I pray this wont affect stream law in Mo. In AR, landowners can practically march you out and we have very few streams to float and fish compared to MO in a legal manner. I fish a lot in Mo because of the freedom I was provided to be in those streams. Landowners cannot prohibit you from moving in the stream and they have to file a complaint against you. As with both states, idiots are to blame for issues on the stream.

There are a lot of issues we don't know about which happen on these streams all the time or occasionally make the news like a drunk stabbing among floaters. This shooting will be added to that long list. Floating and fishing is a huge economic advantage to Mo. By giving landowners rights such as in AR, it would shut down shuttle services. The judge will find foolishness and the male bravado played into this shooting and not river rights. My condolences to the victim's family.

We should all learn from this as to keep in the stream, respect land owners, open our eyes and ears to be aware of issues while we are on streams. That could have been any of us an any certain day given luck may or may have not been with us.

[Terrierman]

I wish I could agree but I have very little faith in our current group of representatives. I think the Missouri Farm bureau would get their way and we would all be screwed.

This legislature is dominated by Republicans. When's the last time you remember a Republican doing anything you liked?

(ducks and runs for cover)