Poaching Season

[Feathers and Fins]

I have to look at it from the point of view if it is LEGAL than that is the law. Every year heck sometimes monthly we see pictures on here of gig marks or questionable marks said to be gigs. It really starts to get to the point I have to question is it real or is it the poster so emotional about the issue they see gigs that are not there. But the topic of this thread got my smartass streak out. Its not ILLEGAL to gig! And there are so many factors involved in the health of the streams, creeks, rivers the SMB live in gigging is only a small part of the big puzzle.

I am with Bird on the true bass issue. 90% of people cannot ID them properly they dont go back in the lake I have seen them in all size classes with gills torn to kill them because bass anglers hate them. What it worse to gig a smallie or to kill a large striper because you dont like them?

For me I call both a crime and shame. There are poachers in all aspects of hunting and fishing but to come out and say its "Poaching Season" offends me and every law abiding sportsmen or should and certainly will win not 1 single gigger over to the side of the arguement.

The only way to stop it is to get as much evidence of illegal activity, turn it over to the law keep your fingers from typing you saw it ( because i can promise people read these boards ) and they will avoid places named. When a bust is made by all means post it but not while a ongoing investigation might be going on. You do then you are aiding in destroying the smallmouth you are trying to protect as now the poachers know stay clear of that area for awhile and move on to another creek to do it as the law is on the first creek.

[MOsmallies]

I totally understand your point Feathers and Fins.... And let me go on record saying that I also don't like lumping legal, law-abiding giggers in with illegal, poaching giggers. It's not fair to those abiding by the laws. I have no issues with giggers targeting suckers within the law. I totally understand that we should not refer to it as "poaching season" as well.

I'm just interested in promoting awareness to everyone that enjoy our streams that illegal gigging of smallmouth, largemouth, trout, and walleye is taking place and to keep an eye out and report incidents that you may witness. I'm against all poaching in the fishing and hunting world. Smallmouth just happen to be my passion and I'm most aware of the methods and severity in which they are being poached. I'd be extremely upset to find a Striper with it's gills slit as well.

I respectfully agree and disagree with your last point. On one end turning it over to the law and allowing the legal process to take place is important. I can see how not talking about it online may allow for them to catch more poachers in the act because the poachers won't be aware of a sting operation.... But there's also benefits to talking about it. Take the Huzzah spearing incident for example. I'm the one who first posted the photo and information and to be honest, I'm glad I did. Several people here on OAF were just as outraged as I was and began calling the local agents, putting pressure on them to act. The poacher in that case was prosecuted. That thread went on for weeks and eventually another OAF member mentioned that his friend witnessed another spearfishing poacher on the Huzzah weeks later. He turned the poacher in and that poacher was prosecuted as well. I may be naive in thinking this, but I feel that our discussions and efforts by talking about it online helped raise awareness and helped lead to the prosecution of two poachers that were targeting Native Smallmouth and Largemouth. Now the individual who witnessed and turned in the 2nd poacher may have never even known that we the poaching thread even took place here on OAF. But it's just as easy that he was aware of the thread, and the passion behind the discussions lead him to act as opposed to ignoring the situation. Like I said, I may be naive, but I think that by having constructive conversations, whether online or in person, that we have the ability to make a difference and help nab some of these poachers who are hurting the resources that everyone on this site love.

I'll get off my soap box now. I just wanted to thank Scott for posting the MDC contact information and just mentioning to be on the lookout.

[405z06]

Now the individual who witnessed and turned in the 2nd poacher may have never even known that we the poaching thread even took place here on OAF. But it's just as easy that he was aware of the thread, and the passion behind the discussions lead him to act as opposed to ignoring the situation. Like I said, I may be naive, but I think that by having constructive conversations, whether online or in person, that we have the ability to make a difference and help nab some of these poachers who are hurting the resources that everyone on this site love.

my friend who alerted the folks at Huzzah Valley about the 2nd spearfishing incident does not read this forum, at least not very frequently. But I indeed did talk to him about the initial spearfishing incident, and even sent him the pictures you posted to his Facebook page. I don't think he would have stopped and alerted anyone if your original thread and pictures had never been posted and stimulated a conversation.

[Feathers and Fins]

Your thread was spot on and needed NO DOUBT... But i am n ot talking about that type of post. I am talking about the guy who gets on here and says he saw a guy the night before or weekend poaching. That is pure and simple stupid as it alerts the poachers he saw them and turned them in and the chance for them to formulate an excuse or not go there. You had a bonehead who was stupid enough to post pictures of his own illegal activity.

That kind of post like you did was smart and correct. But to tell poachers you saw them and reported it is stupid... Like i said tell everyone after they are busted, but also beware they have friends that is why i like the annonymous reporting best, some poachers you may catch but their buddy may catch you one night all alone on a creek. You are dealing with criminals and some of them are more than just poachers.

[MOsmallies]

my friend who alerted the folks at Huzzah Valley about the 2nd spearfishing incident does not read this forum, at least not very frequently. But I indeed did talk to him about the initial spearfishing incident, and even sent him the pictures you posted to his Facebook page. I don't think he would have stopped and alerted anyone if your original thread and pictures had never been posted and stimulated a conversation.

That's great to hear 405z06... Thank you for sharing that info with your buddy and thank you to your buddy for choosing to act and do the right thing. We need more people like you guys on the rivers.

Feathers and Fins... You make a good point

[Chief Grey Bear]

I'll bet any amount that there are far more bass taken legally than gigged. In multiples of thousands. Then add in those poached by rod and reel and it is thousand more.

Imagin that on any given weekend there are,conservativly speaking, 5,000 anglers spread across this state on some thousands of miles of rivers and streams. Then just imagin if just half of those kept a limit. Cut that in half again if you want and it will still come out to a ton more than giggers.

I understand and appreciate the passion to save the smallmouth. It is my opinion, if anyone cares, that we need to focus on rewriting the regulations for unimpounded waters of this state. I spoke with a Regional Fisheries Supervisor this spring and he was receptive to the idea of a slot on rivers. But I could tell there was also some relation repair to be done first.

[Mitch f]

I'll bet any amount that there are far more bass taken legally than gigged. In multiples of thousands. Then add in those poached by rod and reel and it is thousand more.

Imagin that on any given weekend there are,conservativly speaking, 5,000 anglers spread across this state on some thousands of miles of rivers and streams. Then just imagin if just half of those kept a limit. Cut that in half again if you want and it will still come out to a ton more than giggers.

I understand and appreciate the passion to save the smallmouth. It is my opinion, if anyone cares, that we need to focus on rewriting the regulations for unimpounded waters of this state. I spoke with a Regional Fisheries Supervisor this spring and he was receptive to the idea of a slot on rivers. But I could tell there was also some relation repair to be done first.

Agreed, but repairing relationships is so hard!

[oneshot]

Your thread was spot on and needed NO DOUBT... But i am n ot talking about that type of post. I am talking about the guy who gets on here and says he saw a guy the night before or weekend poaching. That is pure and simple stupid as it alerts the poachers he saw them and turned them in and the chance for them to formulate an excuse or not go there. You had a bonehead who was stupid enough to post pictures of his own illegal activity.

That kind of post like you did was smart and correct. But to tell poachers you saw them and reported it is stupid... Like i said tell everyone after they are busted, but also beware they have friends that is why i like the annonymous reporting best, some poachers you may catch but their buddy may catch you one night all alone on a creek. You are dealing with criminals and some of them are more than just poachers.

Got to agree the wrong person will burn your House down or worse. Seen it happen many times in the hills where most Gigging goes on.

oneshot

[Bird Watcher]

I'll bet any amount that there are far more bass taken legally than gigged. In multiples of thousands. Then add in those poached by rod and reel and it is thousand more.

Imagin that on any given weekend there are,conservativly speaking, 5,000 anglers spread across this state on some thousands of miles of rivers and streams. Then just imagin if just half of those kept a limit. Cut that in half again if you want and it will still come out to a ton more than giggers.

I understand and appreciate the passion to save the smallmouth. It is my opinion, if anyone cares, that we need to focus on rewriting the regulations for unimpounded waters of this state. I spoke with a Regional Fisheries Supervisor this spring and he was receptive to the idea of a slot on rivers. But I could tell there was also some relation repair to be done first.

I agree with your first point for sure. In my travels, I have seen exponentially more limits of barely legal smallmouth on stringers than gig scarred smallmouth.

I also think the protected slot is a winner.

What is "relation repair"?

[Al Agnew]

AAARRRGGGHHH!!!! Chief, I'll say this same thing again. I'm not saying, nor do I think that anybody else here is saying, that illegal gigging is having a big impact on the total numbers of smallmouth in these streams. You are certainly right that the number of legally kept bass caught by hook and line anglers is far greater. And I agree with you that the legal length and creel limits need to be changed.

BUT, there is simply no comparison between hook and line angling and gigging when it comes to BIG smallmouth. Giggers don't bother to target the abundant 12 inch or less than 12 inch smallies. They target big ones. Of all those hook and line catch and keep anglers, how many of them, do you think, catch 18 inch plus smallmouth regularly? Not many, if any. Of all the good anglers on here, it would be interesting to see how many 18 inch plus smallmouth they catch and release in a year's time...I can only speak for myself but I maybe catch a dozen or so at most per year of that size, spread over multiple rivers and multiple stretches of those rivers. And more importantly, I can't specifically target those big ones. I can't go to a couple of pools, see them, and catch them. But the illegal gigger can. They can go out with the express intent of sticking big ones, and if the conditions are anywhere near right, they can do it and get the vast majority of them. When you couple that with the fact that the big ones are much more concentrated during gigging season, especially from mid-October on, all the gigger has to do is find one good wintering pool and he can, if he so desires, kill what amounts to ALMOST EVERY BIG SMALLMOUTH that would inhabit several miles of stream in warm weather when the catch and keep anglers are doing most of their fishing. We all know that big ones exist in low numbers to begin with, so it doesn't take much illegal gigging to have a HUGE impact on that subset of the population.

That's why we are so upset about this issue. I wouldn't care nearly as much about it if the giggers were doing what the catch and keep anglers are doing, killing their six 12-13 inchers and the occasional bigger fish. But when they are illegal cropping off a very significant percentage of the already scarce big fish, it's a big deal.

And by the way, Feathers and Fins, I have to say I'm a little insulted by your implication that what we're seeing might not be gig marks. Please tell me, when you see this stuff during gigging season, and ONLY during gigging season, and it's big scrapes and perfectly spaced holes, please tell me what else it could be? Please don't say herons or eagles or otters or turtles. In cold weather, big bass simply don't come up into shallow enough water for a heron or an eagle to reach them, even if those birds were so inclined to attack a fish that size. Turtles are either completely in hibernation or in near dormancy. Otters don't make those kinds of marks.