Opinions On Guide Guarantees... And Should I Be As Mad As I Am?

[Al Agnew]

If what Phil surmised is correct, the problem is still simply a lack of communication. As I said before, the guide should have said why he was fishing, what he was trying, and why he was trying it. He should also have said why he kept the client fishing the same lure all day (I assume the guide was having him use what he thought most likely to work, and was trying other stuff himself). If that's the case I'd have no problem with it. But to fish all day himself without the communication opens him up to the suspicion that he was more interested in his own fishing than in the client's fishing.

The guide fishing himself always puts him at risk of catching a big fish that the client feels he should have caught, especially on a slow fishing day. It's a no-win situation in that case.

One of my Montana guide friends was guiding a man and his son last summer. He parked the boat along a gravel bar and sent them to the pool just below it to fish some terrific water, and as he was sitting in the boat rearranging gear as they fished, he picked up a rod and drifted a nymph along the bar just to see whether the strike indicator would float well with that nymph...and caught a huge brown, the biggest one he's seen caught on the Yellowstone in a few years. And as luck would have it the son was walking back to the boat when he hooked it and watched him land it. The father was somewhat upset, thinking my friend had sent him down to fish nothing water while my friend hogged the good water.

[Mitch f]

Not every guide is going to be happy-go-lucky. Some of the best guides are old grumps but they flat know fish and how to catch them.

Truer words have never been said!

I've been guided by real jerks who were the best dang fisherman around. Kind of like fishing with the soup nazi. But when I do get a guide, I get one that's good so I can learn from him and hopefully catch a nice fish. Catching a nice fish is just icing on the cake.

[Buzz]

I guess I'm stupid. I had the feeling that Flyman was talking about Stockton Lake. Just my first impression. Either way it seems a little bit funny to me. Apparently Phil knows, so I'll go with that.

[LittleRedFisherman]

I've been guided three different times, and guess I was fortunate because they were all class acts and very friendly. Last year a friend and I hired one on White River just in search of big browns, it was slow and was about 2.5 hours in before we caught one. After that first fish, he said I can breath a little now, he was getting a tad nervous. After that the bite turned on, and wound up catching a 29 inch bruiser, a brown of a lifetime for me. Me and that guide still text each other for time to time, great guy, never picked up a rod all day, just keep us tied up and one ready to go. My very first experience with a guide was on the Little Red, on a fly fishing trip. He showed me how to mend line properly, roll cast, etc. That was the only time he ever tried to fish, until I asked him to join me on the shoal as he was trying to put me on the giant rainbow he'd been seeing. I asked him to try also, as I'm about seeing a fish caught, it's not all about me catching it, that day was more for a learning experience. It was in the 20's that day, but he was very patient with me, as I was knotting up the leader a lot from being a rookie on the flyrod. My favorite experience, i'll go ahead and mention the name, as he's a regular on here, but Brian Sloss is a prince of a guy, and taught me a lot that day he took me and a friend fishing. The driftboat experience is awesome! He was very accomadating, taught us a lot more about flyfishing, and a few tricks to the river. We talk from time to time this time of year, and I consider him a friend.

So guess from my experience, if I went with flyrod's guy, i'd probably be disappointed to, because I always felt I got what I payed for in my three experences with a guide. I know it's a tough job, but communitcation is important. Like Brian stated earlier, he was giving me water updates before we went, as he was afraid it might of been muddy, if the conditions had been bad, I know he'd would of warned us. It's more than just catching fish to most people i'd say, it's about learning. Which I did.

[Quillback]

Sorry to hear about your trip there Flyman - I've fished with guides many times in Washington State for salmon and steelhead. It was always a bit of a gamble, especially for steelhead and I knew that going in. My expectations for a guide are that they be on time, have a clean boat, good tackle in good condition, be focused on getting me into fish, have local knowledge, and be reasonably personable and be willing to share info on technique and if I'm doing something wrong, step in and correct it. If the fishing is lousy, but if I felt the guide did all he could to get me into fish, well that's just fishing, some days it just doesn't work out.

All you can do at this point is chalk it up to experience, learn what you can and move on. I'd also add that maybe next time if you decide to get a guide, ask on the forum for some of the guys to PM you with recommendations that have had experience with the guides in this area.

[flyman]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the discussion. Quillback is right, just learn from it and move on. Find someone more reputable. I definitely question this guys ability to catch walleye. He is mostly a guide on Table Rock with bass being his primary target. His website showed glowing reviews, mostly from Table Rock. But he claims knowledge of all the area lakes. I chose him mostly because he was one of the only guides that guided the specific area I wanted to fish and because of the reviews on his website. I have no question his abilities as a bass fisherman. He's probably great. He was very friendly no question about that either. However, there were some red flags during the day that made me question his confidence in catching walleye. Just some of the comments he made, etc.

I will say there is no question in my mind that he was fishing for pleasure. I get that guides might need to dial in on them, sure. Case in point, about 30 minutes into the trip he hooked a monster, we didn't get to see it because it broke off. He was cussing after losing a 30 dollar Mega Bass jerkbait (ouch, I feel that pain). Did he tie on the same lure for me? No he did not. He tied on another Mega Bass for himself and kept me on a Rogue jerkbait. Later he saw some fish schooled on the graph. He switched to a grub and caught a couple spots. He switched back and forth between lures and rods trying to catch a few more. Did he lures for me or ask if I wanted to catch a few bass? No he did not. Is that testing the waters? I don't believe it was. I would be the first to invite a guide to fish with me and it wouldn't bother me a bit if he fished with the same equipment and lures as me. It was completely obvious that he cared more about boating some bass than guiding me.

It gets even better. Not that I cared about it at the time but... when I got there he was still at the ramp unsure what to do. The courtesy dock was out and he said he didn't want to beach his boat. I offered to back him in, go park the truck and meet him at the marina. I did it on the way back too. I went and got his truck backed it in so he could load up. Are you kidding me? It was my idea to help him out no big deal. I'm always willing to help. Whatever. But if you really fished the area much you would probably know that the dock was out. Combined with the rest of my experience it really paints a bad picture.

I have been with other guides. I went with Mike Webb this summer to TR. When I arrived he had the boat on the dock waiting for my arrival. The first thing he said was "You're here to learn, what would you like to learn today?". His knowledge of the lake and the fish was obvious. He shared so much information that it was difficult to absorb it all. He went over everything. Had me at the bow showing me tips on electronics. He even asked me if I wanted to GPS the locations where we caught fish so I could come back on my own. He didn't fish one time. He is an awesome guide and fisherman.

Phil, I honestly doubt it's a guide that you have in mind. You may possibly know him but it isn't anyone that is primarily known as a walleye guide or that I have seen recommended here on the forums. I would be open to suggestions if you have a good one.

I appreciate people defending the guide and giving him the benefit of the doubt. Normally, I would be the first to side with the guide. I know people can be difficult to please. At the same time, there are going to be people lousy at what they do. There are lousy guides and I think I found one. I'm over it now but I will never recommend that guide to anyone. I will always try to find a recommendation (for the fish and location) from here on out.

[Feathers and Fins]

I will say there is no question in my mind that he was fishing for pleasure. I get that guides might need to dial in on them, sure. Case in point, about 30 minutes into the trip he hooked a monster, we didn't get to see it because it broke off. He was cussing after losing a 30 dollar Mega Bass jerkbait (ouch, I feel that pain). Did he tie on the same lure for me? No he did not. He tied on another Mega Bass for himself and kept me on a Rogue jerkbait. Later he saw some fish schooled on the graph. He switched to a grub and caught a couple spots. He switched back and forth between lures and rods trying to catch a few more. Did he lures for me or ask if I wanted to catch a few bass? No he did not. Is that testing the waters? I don't believe it was. I would be the first to invite a guide to fish with me and it wouldn't bother me a bit if he fished with the same equipment and lures as me. It was completely obvious that he cared more about boating some bass than guiding me.

It gets even better. Not that I cared about it at the time but... when I got there he was still at the ramp unsure what to do. The courtesy dock was out and he said he didn't want to beach his boat. I offered to back him in, go park the truck and meet him at the marina. I did it on the way back too. I went and got his truck backed it in so he could load up. Are you kidding me? It was my idea to help him out no big deal. I'm always willing to help. Whatever. But if you really fished the area much you would probably know that the dock was out. Combined with the rest of my experience it really paints a bad picture.

Had those two paragraphs been in your original post and if they are true then this guide should NOT have charged you for his pleasure trip. Those statements to me say he was out there to fish for himself and you paid for the trip. Not knowing a dock is out of water as a guide is inexcusable unless they pulled it the day before. Having a client back the trailer down WTH is that. This "guide" should have refunded you 100% he was not prepared not up to date and was more interested in his pleasure fishing then doing his job. based off the above paragraphs.

I no longer guide but still take people out and show them how to fish the lake, I still stress out every-time until we get a fish on the boat and I try teaching all day long from sonar tips to why im fishing a bait and why I change out to even why im on a certain spot or speed. A guide should be a little bit of a Teacher, Friend, comedian, historian and cook. Guides cant make fish bite but if they can be a teacher and have you enjoy even the toughest bites even no bite days then they did their job. But to use your money to pay for their pleasure trip is as bad as it gets.

[Bill Anderson]

There are NO guarantees in fishing, but since you were the paying client, I think the guide should have spent at least 90% of his time tending to you--swapping your lures out and so forth, trying to get you onto some fish. That has been my experience with guides. The only time a guide should fish is trying to find the fish for you, or showing you the proper techniques. Just letting you ride along in his boat and charging you for that while he fished was not very professional if that was the case, in my opinion.

[Phil Lilley]

Had those two paragraphs been in your original post and if they are true then this guide should NOT have charged you for his pleasure trip. Those statements to me say he was out there to fish for himself and you paid for the trip. Not knowing a dock is out of water as a guide is inexcusable unless they pulled it the day before. Having a client back the trailer down WTH is that. This "guide" should have refunded you 100% he was not prepared not up to date and was more interested in his pleasure fishing then doing his job. based off the above paragraphs.

I no longer guide but still take people out and show them how to fish the lake, I still stress out every-time until we get a fish on the boat and I try teaching all day long from sonar tips to why im fishing a bait and why I change out to even why im on a certain spot or speed. A guide should be a little bit of a Teacher, Friend, comedian, historian and cook. Guides cant make fish bite but if they can be a teacher and have you enjoy even the toughest bites even no bite days then they did their job. But to use your money to pay for their pleasure trip is as bad as it gets.

ditto...

When he found those fish- he should have handed you his rod. And you should have been fishing the good stuff. Not good.

May be you should seek out Tripadvisor. Wonder if there's a site like Tripadvisor for fishing guides?

[Leonard]

Here's my take...

I think you have every right to be upset..

you spent most of the day watching him catch fish..
you didnt catch any..

you had to help him load and unload his boat..

he used baits that caught fish and gave you ones that were not working..

you may have been in his boat..... even then I think it should have been discounted and not a full charge. (to cover gas)

at the end he never offered you another trip for the "true" experince...

then at the end you paid $225.... WOW!

I dont guide out of a boat, I also have never been on a fishless night trip..
my worst night guiding was a 3 fish night ... and we agreed at 1/2 cost... 4 other people we talked to that night didnt catch anything (one of them was also a guide).. That was a good night... but crappy night of fishing..
this was the closest I ever came to a fishless on a guide trip...

Yes I fish on a few trip... a few cast here and there...
there has never been a night were I caught more then the people I had out out..

I may stay out a little longer then most guides.... but after our guided time (4-8+ hours) of catching.. I start fishing with them even then Im still watching and making sure they are still catching.