Onsr Comments

[Quillback]

Yes, I'd like to also hear how it goes.

[ColdWaterFshr]

I will be there. Paul Dallas will be knocking some heads.

[Gavin]

You didn't miss much...Didn't get off work in time to hit the open house...but the meeting was BS IMO..No open debate allowed. Did get a kick out of some of the weird speakers.The no government lady with the Cruella DeVille hat on, The imbalanced person talking about organic gardening and the purity of the water (I bet that she composts her own waste). The school teacher who brought 32 students to experience government and spoke in favor of the status quo (Glad my kids aren't in his class). It didn't solve or resolve anything, it just added to the stack of comments. The guy who spoke for the jet boat group seemed like a reasonable person.

Think that most in attendance love the river but they have different ideas about how it should be used. Local folks think its "theirs". It is not, but they do get the benefit of more frequent use. Plenty of folks from the city who get there whenever they can. Fewer numbers of folks that rarely(never) visit with an agenda be it anti-government or extreme environmentalism. On the up side I got to say a quick hello to some friends that I don't see often, and split a pitcher with some good friends afterwards...Not a bad evening out of the house.

[ColdWaterFshr]

It was pretty much a non-event, even though I'd estimate +300 people packed the house. As I arrived I thought it had the potential to get rowdy and contentious, but was disappointed. Cops were there, parking was tough to come by and the ingredients were all there for trouble.

The NPS wisely, but disappointingly, to almost everyone in attendance, including the vast majority who had travelled considerable distance to make show of force (Jet boat crowd with their jetboats and trailers, locals and officials from Dent and Shannon Counties, and others) . . . . the NPS DEFUSED the whole dam thing by allowing ONLY commentary on the proposed Big Springs Wilderness tract of land, which comprises only 4% or so of the ONSR. So they allowed people who had signed up to speak, gave them each their little 2 minutes of uninterrupted speech their due, either in favor of that small tract of land or not being a wilderness area, and then no Q & A about the bigger scope of the whole Management options being proposed that were the essence of what really mattered to almost everyone there. Still, I'd say of speakers -- it was at least 5 to 1 in favor of Alternative A or a couple B's as compared to the No change or even more radicals who wanted the ONSR turned back over to state control. Even though that wasn't even on the table for discussion.

It was a joke. A total farce and I felt duped and felt bad for everyone there. Though respectful and peaceful, there was rage there that needed to be let out. A large group of people assembled and didn't properly get to ask questions and vent. Commentary only on whether a small 3000 acres way down stream south of Van Buren should be made a wilderness area when it practically already is, and Congress (not the NPS) has to vote on it anyway to make it so . . . . .are you kidding me?

Best part of it was enjoying a beer and a few laughs afterwards with Gavin and Hoffmeyer.

[Alex Heitman]

That's why I don't like their plans because they have there mind made up already and are not listening to what the public think. The people that have out this all together do not care what we think and probably hardly ever use the river. It's bogus in my opinion and I think that's why people are so angry over the whole situation. I just hope it works out and is fair for everyone including the jet boats. I live fishing from round springs to two rivers and it is almost Impossible to fish all the spots unless you have a jet. I know there are some idiots who are out of control but I would hate for them to ruin it for everyone else that fishes that stretch of river with a jet. Some really great smallmouth fishing all through there. I've seen and caught several that were close to 4lbs. All in all I hope it all works out.

[SpoonDog]

Bummer. I saw the boat folks had put up a short video on their FB page- looks like a reasonably irritated official giving them the third degree over the parking situation. My favorite moment is in the last few seconds- you can hear a woman saying "If I could direct the conversation in a slightly more productive manner..." before the video cuts out. Figured that was pretty emblematic

Shame they spent so much time on such a small part of the management plan, and that they didn't address comments of questions about the rest of it. Then again, ONSR staff have been avoiding the elephant in the room for decades- I guess I should've seen that coming. I'm filing my comments tomorrow, we'll see what happens.

[tanvat]

Meeting was interesting. Spent most of the time milling about pretending to look at stuff but really listening to conversations/debates. Bottom line, most of the local opposition boils down to pretty extreme anti-govt sentiment. Agenda 21, etc. several conversations were not about atvs or jets but instead were rants about hiw "the government" wants to kick out the locals and move everyone to big cities so the government can "control everything.".

I interjected once when some Mo. Trapper Assn. guy was denying that anything had changed so as to warrant a new plan. This led to a fairly long discussion with a group of locals re ATVs along the river, jet boats etc. it was very civil- except for the young hothead who insisted he had right to drive anywhere he pleased and laughed off the idea that atv use along riverbanks causes erosion, infringes on the majority and facilitates establishment of invasive species - he was after all an "arborist." and knew all about such things. When I pointed out varios specific examples of new or expanded roads or any other fact, the response was usually factually wrong (eg. No more road access now than years ago) and came back to slippery slope argument about how the government is out to control everything. And here I thought the issue about motorized use, etc. Try as I might, I guess I'll never be privy to what is "really" going on.

I would love to sit down and have a beer with the Park Service folks after a mmeting like this and get their unvarnished take on some of the local conspiracy theorists. They were professional and patient, but you could tell they were mostly thinking if ther really is something odd in the water down there.

[Alex Heitman]

I grew up in dent county tanvat. You are right about the people, they are very narrow minded and hate any change. Sometimes they take things to the extreme and way over exaggerate. Some of them think they can do as they please and this is what ruins it for everyone else. Being a local they think they are entitled and own the river. I can see kind of why from their viewpoint since they are the ones mostly on it all the time, but they need to listen and try to compromise so it is fair for everyone else as well keep the river from degrading. Once you get to know most of the people from that area your opinions usually change and they are not as bad as you once thought before. I say that because I grew up there and have lived in stl for the last six years and know how people's opinions are about people from that area. Hope it works out for everyone and a fair decision is made.

[ness]

Well, I guess I'm not surprised. The business of government can't really be accomplished in an open forum like that. I think I would have enjoyed hearing some of the crazies and their wild ideas, for the entertainment value only. Some folks can't pass up the chance to get behind a microphone. There are probably forums in which the real good stuff gets discussed, but I guess you'd have to be way more involved than I'll ever be to be privy to that stuff. I don't feel guilty about that, it's just the way it is. Not enough hours in the day.

Back to work

[awhuber]

you guys kill me. You came looking for fight?

I posted this in the other thread on Jan 11

Remember folks the meetings are for the proposed wilderness area. Comments about the options are being taken on line. They will be there to try to answer questions about the various options but all comments will be on line. by the way the wilderness, by the park service own words, is dead in the water.

We made the two hr drive to talk and share with the folks up there. met alot of folks who had never even been here. I have some coming down this weekend for a float.

It was a pretty poor showing imho, The nps said about 1000. We had 500 at Eminence (population 550) 200 at Salem and 400 at Van Buren.